Is this an appropriate response from a government teacher?

You should stand up, its respecting everyone else

I have a feeling this didn't go as you said.  And, clearly, you're upset by it otherwise you wouldn't be mocking her for falling out of her chair.  Someday when you're no longer a child you'll realize that you don't stand because you want to look cool.  There are more reasons to stand for your country than there are to disrespect someday you'll realize that.

I reluctantly went through all 13 pages of this topic and all I did was become more confused on how the pledge is so bad.

I understand that you may have conflicting political issues, I'm English and I don't recite my national anthem. It's not that I'm not thankful for being able to live in a country where I have food on my table and a roof over my head and although I've never been patriotic about my country (I don't think it's as simple as we're a good country or a bad country, I think we have a lot of good things and a lot of bad things), singing lines like "God save the Queen" and "Long to reign over us" just doesn't seem right when I'm an atheist who believes that, while the Royal family is beneficial to this country, they're not the ones, nor indeed should they be the ones who rule over us. This isn't just about my spiritual or political beliefs, but it seems disrespectful to the people around me who really do believe in these things to lie and say that I do too.

While I'd urge you to consider at least standing for the respect of people around you and consider that the country you live in might have at least some good in it for being able to feed you, clothe you, and keep you safe and healthy, your teacher was out of line. No matter how much she politically disagrees with you or thinks you're being a dick, it's neither professional as a teacher, nor mature as a grown adult to act like she did.

you should of stood. you have no idea how lucky you are to be born here. and you have no idea what people have gone through to make sure you could have the freedom to not stand for that pledge. its your right not to. but its a fucked up thing to do. i hope you do move to a different country and see if the grass is really greener.

Awesome!  Americans have to stand and pledge allegiance to their country every day at school?  No wonder your country is full of aggressively patriotic citizens.

I say, paying taxes is enough. No need to pledge eternal loyalty or throw your ass into a battlefield as long as you remain a constructive member of society and do not betray international security.

The amount of jingoistic nonsense in this thread is amusing. The pledge is stupid for a number of reasons, especially in Texas. As a child, I never observed it; however, back then, no one cared. These days, the pledge is not just a mindless, unwarranted exercise, it's a political tool centered largely on bigotry. It deserves no more respect than loyalty oaths. Anyone who disagrees is more than welcome to check out the recent legislative history of the pledge in Texas; it's all about political and religious chest-thumping.

As for the OP, the matter is probably best left alone, but there are significant legal protections for students who do not participate in the pledge; any actions taken in retaliation (including being singled out by an instructor) is a violation of law.

@Twitchey: You sound like a drama queen.You don't have to stand for the flag, just like the teacher can call you out for being a bitch.FREEDOM

You do have a choice, you could just not go, or you could go to private school, a community college (if they take you), or home schooled.  If you want the education tax payers are paying for you should do what's required of you. Your protest really isn't doing anything, so what's the point?

Her response was way out of line.

In my opinion,  both of you are wrong. 

@Doctorchimp said:

@Twitchey: You sound like a drama queen.You don't have to stand for the flag, just like the teacher can call you out for being a bitch.FREEDOM

thing is, students are in school because it is mandatory. They are in a unbalanced relationship with authority figures (teachers/state) and are not equally "free" in school, one might say they are dependent on the teachers good will.

You do have a choice, you could just not go, or you could go to private school, a community college (if they take you), or home schooled.  If you want the education tax payers are paying for you should do what's required of you. Your protest really isn't doing anything, so what's the point? Her response was way out of line. In my opinion,  both of you are wrong. 

You didn't say the pledge?! DUDE! Then you went all "I don't care" on her?! WHOA! Keep it up dude! You personify what I aspire to be!

Why the hell should you be forced to respect something? Isn't America supposed to be the land of Freedom? She is completely in the wrong, you are completely in the right.

Hey kid next time a teacher hassles you, just tell her that the pledge of alliegence was made by Francis Bellamy a christian socialist. Anyone who would call you out on not standing for the pledge is also conservative enough to be repulsed by socialism. Hey fun fact the original hand gesture resembled the roman salute which if you are not familiar with is basically the salute Hitler used (don't do it in school to be a smartass). Also in "under god" wasn't added in the 50's as opposition to communism. Just fun facts.

I'll be straight up with you I'm a political science major (though I fully admit my specialization is in international studies). Want to not get hassled? stand up go through the motions. When I was a kid I stayed seated because i simply didn't care about the pledge, it didn't  me and it didn't represent the respect I have for this country . Doing so simply means once an a while teachers will give you shit. Honestly though if what you're saying is true, you handled it fine. Sometimes, you're going to get really vocally liberal and vocally conservative teachers, usually in history class. Just take what they say with a grain of salt.

@l4wd0g said:

You do have a choice, you could just not go, or you could go to private school, a community college (if they take you), or home schooled.  If you want the education tax payers are paying for you should do what's required of you. Your protest really isn't doing anything, so what's the point? Her response was way out of line. In my opinion,  both of you are wrong. 

there is no requirement to do the pledge in any state school, it is illegal to force the pledge upon students.

she's obviously in the wrong but you could have easily avoided a lot of bullshit by just saying the pledge. it's a meaningless gesture, after all. teachers have the power to make your hell, so there's a lot more value in doing whatever makes them happy than there is in trying to live by your own convictions.
or, you could have always said you were a jehovah's witness. that would have shut her up.

Me and my friends never said the pledge or stood for it either since we didn't agree with what Bush Jr. was doing with the country. Our teacher understood that and was cool with it. Your teacher sounds like she had her panties in a massive wad. Maybe she had a family member in the military. That's the closest logical reason that I can think of why she would fly off the handle. Not saying she was allowed to do that, just saying maybe she just lost control of herself for a day.

While she's being ignorant by enforcing America's beliefs on you. You should at least have a level of respect for the country and the soldiers that actually uphold it's pledge so you have a high school to attend and be an immature brat about not appreciating it. 

Isn't that like bullying... by a teacher?

Btw, we don't do that "pledge" thing in Canada.

She is a right dick, you could report her assuming her superiors dont have similar attitudes.

Stand up for the pledge?
I never knew you people had such a thing.

I think the idea of standing and pledging allegiance really weird.

But then again I'm in Australia.

@example1013: 

Indoctrination?!  You seriously need to get over yourself.  Reciting a 31 word pledge at the beginning of the day is hardly an attempt of our government to indoctrine the youth of our country.  I fail to see the similarities of the Pledge of Allegiance and clear cases of indoctrination such as; the Hitler Youth, the indoctrination of the citizens of North Korea to believe that their leader Kim Jong il is basically a demigod, or young muslim children sent to radical muslim clerics to be taught jihad, or Jim Jones, leader of the Peoples Temple who brainwashed 900+ of his followers to commit mass suicide in Jonestown.  I'm not sure about you but when I was in school I really didn't dwell too much on the pledge after the 10 seconds it took to recite.  Unfortunately, overreating to something so insignificant on your part is common within our country.  I can't count how many times I've heard the following shit:  "Obama wants to reform healthcare, he must be a socialist.  He didn't release the long form of his birth certificate, he must be a foreigner.  After 9/11, if you were against the Iraq War you were Un-American and hated our troops".  The OP is a young immature teenager, doing what everyone else at the age does, trying to get a rise out of others.  I've been there, we've all been there.  But for god's sake stop making this dude out to be some kind of modern day Rosa Parks.  He didn't refuse to say it based on moral or politically objections.  His supposed exchange with the teacher only proves this. 

While she's being ignorant by enforcing America's beliefs on you. You should at least have a level of respect for the country and the soldiers that actually uphold it's pledge so you have a high school to attend and be an immature brat about not appreciating it. 

Like you said it's not you're choice you were born here. 

It's not some poor African kid's choice he's raised in a Libyan conflict, is given an AK when he's 9 years old, or die of starvation, but all you have to do is stand up for a shitty patriotic theme song. 

You were both wrong.

@Evilsbane: I dont know any schools outside of America that do that sort of thing. However, they probably do that sort of thong in some more nationalistic countries like Iran, China or North Korea, they sure dont do it here (Britain) and i personally wouldnt be willing to pledge anything to any country. Don't you have the freedom to dissent?

i actually kind of agree with the teacher, if you dont like your country, move.

I think the idea of standing and pledging allegiance really weird.

But then again I'm in Australia.

You're both assholes.

The teacher sounds awful, but honestly this sounds to me like the kind of situation where you're not as innocent as you make yourself sound.  

@AlexW00d said:

Why the hell should you be forced to respect something? Isn't America supposed to be the land of Freedom? She is completely in the wrong, you are completely in the right.

Freedom is a relative term. You can't just murder people, you can't say whatever you want wherever you want, but you can protest without the fear of the government showing up to kill you (unlike in Iran or other nations). People are killed everyday to have the freedoms we do have in the United States.

More bullcrap.

Have you seen the freedoms in the US lately. Step out of line against the government and they'll come down hard on you like a mofo. The US govt doesn't need to clamp down as hard as other nations because so far the citizens have been content. When they've needed to the US govt has and will exercise full use of power and monopoly of violence on the citizens to stay in power.

Things you CANNOT criticise in the US include, the military, Israel and Israeli lobbies (openly anyway) and certain govt policies when it supposedly jeopardizes national security. Telling the truth is only allowed as long as it does not jeopardize national interests. That is NOT true freedom.

You should take a look at increasing human rights abuses, lack of equality in society, pervasive corruption in govt and big business and the eroding civil liberties in the US.

I love th@FourWude said:

@l4wd0g said:

@AlexW00d said:

Why the hell should you be forced to respect something? Isn't America supposed to be the land of Freedom? She is completely in the wrong, you are completely in the right.

Freedom is a relative term. You can't just murder people, you can't say whatever you want wherever you want, but you can protest without the fear of the government showing up to kill you (unlike in Iran or other nations). People are killed everyday to have the freedoms we do have in the United States.

More bullcrap.

Have you seen the freedoms in the US lately. Step out of line against the government and they'll come down hard on you like a mofo. The US govt doesn't need to clamp down as hard as other nations because so far the citizens have been content. When they've needed to the US govt has and will exercise full use of power and monopoly of violence on the citizens to stay in power.

Things you CANNOT criticise in the US include, the military, Israel and Israeli lobbies (openly anyway) and certain govt policies when it supposedly jeopardizes national security. Telling the truth is only allowed as long as it does not jeopardize national interests. That is NOT true freedom.

You should take a look at increasing human rights abuses, lack of equality in society, pervasive corruption in govt and big business and the eroding civil liberties in the US.

Look historically at the US, it is not nearly as free as it thinks it is.  And no they don't hate you because of your 'freedoms or liberties'. 

You do have a choice, you could just not go, or you could go to private school, a community college (if they take you), or home schooled.  If you want the education tax payers are paying for you should do what's required of you. Your protest really isn't doing anything, so what's the point? Her response was way out of line. In my opinion,  both of you are wrong. 

Again, more delusional bullshit.

There is almost NO choice in what you wrote, because all those "choices" are constrained. They are not equal or open. 

Firstly you HAVE to go to school in most areas of the country. If you don't you get the authorities on your back. Secondly a private school requires private tuition, unless he has the money, that's not a choice. The avenue is not open to him.

Thirdly home schooling is increasingly clamped down upon and discriminated against in the US. And it also requires that someone teach him at home. If he doesn't have a home tutor then that option is also shut off from him.

Your response is about as open as someone saying 'Love it or Leave it'. It's a false dichotomy, a false choice, that you almost never have to make. This is the reality of life. People think they have freedoms and options to do as they please, but life is constrained severely. It's like someone telling you to 'Get a better job'. Theoretically you could get a better job, in practice and in reality the options, choices and avenues open to you to get a better job either don't exist or are severely constrained. Choice in most situations is illusory. It doesn't exist.

There is no spoon, Neo. Thank you and goodnight.

@Meowshi said:

@Tarsier said:

i actually kind of agree with the teacher, if you dont like your country, move.

Yeah, that's a feasible suggestion for a teenager.

Why should you love your country just because you had the misfortune of being born there?  Would you say the same thing to children in a militaristic, oppressive dictatorship, or children during WW2-era Germany?

lol

@pewpewlazer said:

While she's being ignorant by enforcing America's beliefs on you. You should at least have a level of respect for the country and the soldiers that actually uphold it's pledge so you have a high school to attend and be an immature brat about not appreciating it. 

Like you said it's not you're choice you were born here. 

It's not some poor African kid's choice he's raised in a Libyan conflict, is given an AK when he's 9 years old, or die of starvation, but all you have to do is stand up for a shitty patriotic theme song. 

You were both wrong.

This is retarded. Do you really think that those soldiers are fighting to protect freedom of expression just for everyone to turn around and make such an action socially unacceptable? If someone consciously decides to fight for the right to disagree, I'd think that person would prefer vocal disagreement over silence in supposed respect. The idea that you have to obey everyone else to show your love for freedom of expression is nonsensical and hypocritical.

Do none of you who are claiming the OP to be wrong actually even understand the argument you're making?

seems like you don't even have a legitimate reason for not standing for the pledge. maybe you should get that sorted out so you don't go to pieces then bawwwww about it on giantbomb.

Yeah... smart ass kids and ignorant teachers don't mix too well...

You are american do what americans do... i smell a lawsuit

fuck the man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

your an idiot for not pledging... suck it up, learn to appreciate the little culture america has. Your not special for not pledging... 

You should have just stood up to respect others even if you don't respect the pledge itself. It's just courtesy. Although what te teacher did was stupid. You still do have the right to sit down, but like I said, I would stand out of respect for others. 

Yeah... smart ass kids and ignorant teachers don't mix too well...

Uh, she isn't a government employee, shes a employee of a public school which gets funding from state and federal agencies but is not part of any government.  So right there I think you are wrong in your thinking.

And unless your a citizen of another country, not standing up for something as basic as a pledge makes you one of those kids who tries to be different by doing the dumbest things possible.  And by making a thread like this, it really does help mark you as an attention whore.

Stand for the pledge. You live in this country, and believe it or not, you've very lucky to have the things you do. So show some respect. I'm not saying that the teacher didn't cross the line, but c'mon.

I've always felt weird reciting the pledge during the local pro-wrestling shows in my town.  It's sort of a silly occasion to get all patriotic.