Socialism, Hannity, and Rush.

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Jax

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Edited By Jax
They expect us to reform! But not what you think.
They expect us to reform! But not what you think.
It's hilarious to me how the Republicans have distanced themselves from GW so much over the last few years, even to the extent where they will not discuss his administration yet flip right over to Obama. I came out to Mississippi recently to take care of my grandmother (after my grandfather passed). She suffers from Dementia, but has always been a hard follower of the Republican Party. I am subjected, daily, to Rush, Hannity and Fox news. After being here three months, I can without a doubt see how Fox news works. They will preemptively spin anything about Obama before they even break the story. "Obama has Signed a bill designating so and so - BUT DOES THIS MEAN WE'RE COMIES?" How their network can even legally claim to be "fair and balanced" is totally beyond me. They always go after Democrats, yet never mention the ongoings of those within their own party. Have we all forgoten Mr. Limbaughs little romp with prescription pain killers and his maid? I think we have. If we hadn't, I don't think that anyone, even those within the GOP could take this overweight, racist, sexist pig seriously. Yet, I suppose in this day and age, with "Socialism" and "Communism" threating our precious way of life, the GOP will take anyone.

Is this America? Hannity breaks it down for you at 10:00!
Is this America? Hannity breaks it down for you at 10:00!


It's one of the most incredibly facetious news networks ever created. Rush and Hannity on their own, though are even worse. They will hardly ever take callers who have a difference of opinion than theirs (screening) because they run out of the same pre made talking points that they write before their show airs. It's completely obvious that they have no skills in debating, or discussing anything outside of the fear mongering tactics which they employ. Out of the 15-20 some callers that Rush and Hannity take per day, I'd say one out of two actually disagree with them, and you can be certain that during the commercial breaks the screener will alert Rush or Hannity about the callers purpose and problem, which gives them a heads up on their talking points. I find it absolutely horrendous that these people, the GOP, are allowed to continue to spread fear and hate, just as they did during the GW Administration on terrorism. Now, they're stuck on the Socialism rant, which in all respects completely alienates the educated members of society. Yet, in their denial of GW, they are hoping that people actually forget these past 8 years, and listen to what they say about Obama, as if they have ANY credibility as a party, or as a movement in our modern culture. We are no longer the America of Marxism or isolationism; we have come too far to revert back to our "roots." The GOP is so adamant on hanging on to the past, as if our young country of only 250+ some odd years has nothing else to offer but Patriotism and Capitalism. We have made so many advances in the last fifty years in foreign policy, domestic policy and reform of old laws which did leave our country out dated (racism, marxism, segregation, lack of Unions, workers comp, etc, etc).  And guess which party opposed nearly all of them? You guessed it right. But no! No. I stand corrected. The GOP stands for conservatism. And no (insert sarcasm) that doesn't mean racism, or unfair business practices or does it even remotely hint at isolationsim. Wait, no actually the GOP can't stand for isolationism anymore, there is that little threat of those people you know, the ones who look different than the white man. Oh yeah, that's generally labled as terrorism now. I forgot, I haven't been around for the last eight years to have all of those lies and fear tactics shuved down my closed minded throat.

Holy shit! People actually listen to them?
Holy shit! People actually listen to them?

The greatest aspect of America is its ability to change and adapt to those countries who in all respects have every right to move forward as they wish. It is not our place to employ policies and threats to those who are different than us. Yet, this is and always has and will be the policy of the GOP - because their agenda is wealth. It's quite simple. You cannot change greed, because greed is tangible. Without any morals, ethics or reason, how can you prove a point? The GOP are evil, and I say this with the sincerest form of open mindedness that I have. I do not hate any one. I am not racist, nor do I hold an ill intent in my heart for anyone. Yet the facts speak for themselves. And if Americans still fall for talking points and what the media crams down their throat (on either side of the isle) then we can't ever expect to move forward. It's not that hard to see why people choose the parties they do. Although it is hard to prove what is right, and what is wrong.
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Jax

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#1  Edited By Jax
They expect us to reform! But not what you think.
They expect us to reform! But not what you think.
It's hilarious to me how the Republicans have distanced themselves from GW so much over the last few years, even to the extent where they will not discuss his administration yet flip right over to Obama. I came out to Mississippi recently to take care of my grandmother (after my grandfather passed). She suffers from Dementia, but has always been a hard follower of the Republican Party. I am subjected, daily, to Rush, Hannity and Fox news. After being here three months, I can without a doubt see how Fox news works. They will preemptively spin anything about Obama before they even break the story. "Obama has Signed a bill designating so and so - BUT DOES THIS MEAN WE'RE COMIES?" How their network can even legally claim to be "fair and balanced" is totally beyond me. They always go after Democrats, yet never mention the ongoings of those within their own party. Have we all forgoten Mr. Limbaughs little romp with prescription pain killers and his maid? I think we have. If we hadn't, I don't think that anyone, even those within the GOP could take this overweight, racist, sexist pig seriously. Yet, I suppose in this day and age, with "Socialism" and "Communism" threating our precious way of life, the GOP will take anyone.

Is this America? Hannity breaks it down for you at 10:00!
Is this America? Hannity breaks it down for you at 10:00!


It's one of the most incredibly facetious news networks ever created. Rush and Hannity on their own, though are even worse. They will hardly ever take callers who have a difference of opinion than theirs (screening) because they run out of the same pre made talking points that they write before their show airs. It's completely obvious that they have no skills in debating, or discussing anything outside of the fear mongering tactics which they employ. Out of the 15-20 some callers that Rush and Hannity take per day, I'd say one out of two actually disagree with them, and you can be certain that during the commercial breaks the screener will alert Rush or Hannity about the callers purpose and problem, which gives them a heads up on their talking points. I find it absolutely horrendous that these people, the GOP, are allowed to continue to spread fear and hate, just as they did during the GW Administration on terrorism. Now, they're stuck on the Socialism rant, which in all respects completely alienates the educated members of society. Yet, in their denial of GW, they are hoping that people actually forget these past 8 years, and listen to what they say about Obama, as if they have ANY credibility as a party, or as a movement in our modern culture. We are no longer the America of Marxism or isolationism; we have come too far to revert back to our "roots." The GOP is so adamant on hanging on to the past, as if our young country of only 250+ some odd years has nothing else to offer but Patriotism and Capitalism. We have made so many advances in the last fifty years in foreign policy, domestic policy and reform of old laws which did leave our country out dated (racism, marxism, segregation, lack of Unions, workers comp, etc, etc).  And guess which party opposed nearly all of them? You guessed it right. But no! No. I stand corrected. The GOP stands for conservatism. And no (insert sarcasm) that doesn't mean racism, or unfair business practices or does it even remotely hint at isolationsim. Wait, no actually the GOP can't stand for isolationism anymore, there is that little threat of those people you know, the ones who look different than the white man. Oh yeah, that's generally labled as terrorism now. I forgot, I haven't been around for the last eight years to have all of those lies and fear tactics shuved down my closed minded throat.

Holy shit! People actually listen to them?
Holy shit! People actually listen to them?

The greatest aspect of America is its ability to change and adapt to those countries who in all respects have every right to move forward as they wish. It is not our place to employ policies and threats to those who are different than us. Yet, this is and always has and will be the policy of the GOP - because their agenda is wealth. It's quite simple. You cannot change greed, because greed is tangible. Without any morals, ethics or reason, how can you prove a point? The GOP are evil, and I say this with the sincerest form of open mindedness that I have. I do not hate any one. I am not racist, nor do I hold an ill intent in my heart for anyone. Yet the facts speak for themselves. And if Americans still fall for talking points and what the media crams down their throat (on either side of the isle) then we can't ever expect to move forward. It's not that hard to see why people choose the parties they do. Although it is hard to prove what is right, and what is wrong.
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Kr3lian

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#2  Edited By Kr3lian

The right-wingnuts arrive in 3...2....1......

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Pibo47

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#3  Edited By Pibo47

Not sure if i think the GOP is evil...but they do suck alot of ass...then again every politician does in this country...and our President...

"A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government."

This is what i think our fed should do. But they never will because they want to fuck with everything. Dem's and Rep's. Why the fuck is everything so damn black all the suddent...

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Snipzor

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#4  Edited By Snipzor

Well it all has to do with the philosophy of American conservatism. Which is literally to preserve 1950's ideology, the conserve their perception of the status quo. They generally get that done by appealing to the scared, to the DEEPLY religious, and the older. All of which were brought up on the same philosophy the right-wing pundits preach on a daily basis.

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super_machine

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#5  Edited By super_machine

Yeah, I can no longer put any support behind the GOP. Maybe my world view is broad enough to see through the BS they spin. I don't put all my faith in the democratic party either, but it if means an end to bourgeoisie capitalism I'm all for it. Just kidding. I really hate it when the conservatives moan about the country going to socialism.

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Claude

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#6  Edited By Claude

I live in the South and I remember when Democrats ruled the day, but they kept changing to Republican.  I've seen a new kind of Democrat rise up and they're called Blue Dog Democrats, more power to them. I worked at a place for eight years and they listened to Limbaugh and Hannity every day. A picture of George W. Bush hung on the wall beside the American Flag. Their views could not be broken and by the end of GW's term they were quiet, but now... they believe it's hell on earth and the worst of times.

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Snipzor

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#7  Edited By Snipzor
Claude said:
"I live in the South and I remember when Democrats ruled the day, but they kept changing to Republican.  I've seen a new kind of Democrat rise up and they're called Blue Dog Democrats, more power to them. I worked at a place for eight years and they listened to Limbaugh and Hannity everyday. A picture of George W. Bush hung on the wall beside the American Flag. Their views could not be broken and by the end of GW's term they were quiet, but now... they believe it's hell on earth and the worst of times. "
Blue Dog Democrats, oh dear they are a strange bunch. What's the point? We all know they are republicans, and considering they are generally part of a society that is mainly republican, they have no reason to hide their obvious affiliations.
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Claude

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#8  Edited By Claude
Snipzor said:
"Claude said:
"I live in the South and I remember when Democrats ruled the day, but they kept changing to Republican.  I've seen a new kind of Democrat rise up and they're called Blue Dog Democrats, more power to them. I worked at a place for eight years and they listened to Limbaugh and Hannity everyday. A picture of George W. Bush hung on the wall beside the American Flag. Their views could not be broken and by the end of GW's term they were quiet, but now... they believe it's hell on earth and the worst of times. "
Blue Dog Democrats, oh dear they are a strange bunch. What's the point? We all know they are republicans, and considering they are generally part of a society that is mainly republican, they have no reason to hide their obvious affiliations."
We move slow in the south. It's a start...  just not a revolution.
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JudgeDread

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#9  Edited By JudgeDread
Claude said:
"I worked at a place for eight years and they listened to Limbaugh and Hannity every day. A picture of George W. Bush hung on the wall beside the American Flag. Their views could not be broken and by the end of GW's term they were quiet, but now... they believe it's hell on earth and the worst of times. "
that just makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside...

ahhh
happiness!
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lilburtonboy7489

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#10  Edited By lilburtonboy7489

Does this post assume the democrats are any better?

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Gunner

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#11  Edited By Gunner

"YOU HATE AMERICA, YOU SUPPORT THE TERRORISTS!"

^^Fox news rebuttal to liberals during debates.

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#12  Edited By BoG

As a registered Republican, I'm so happy to see that you can so easily generalize all Republicans as evil, greedy, close-minded fascists who worship FOX news and Limbaugh. This is actually why I detest Mr.Limbaugh, because he and Hannity create the perception that every Republican is like them and their callers who phone in as huge fans. I guess I was wrong to think that those on the far right are as crazy as those on the far left, and that calling our moderate government intervention socialism is a radical misinterpretation. I'm sorry for being so ideological and ruining the country. Oh, and on foreign policy, I'd say Republicans have had a much better record for foreign policy relative to democratic presidents. As honorable as the Carter doctrine was, it failed to accomplish anything.

Oh, and I think Calude nailed it with the Blue Dogs. Democrats like these will only do good for the country. I'm a huge advocate of governing from the center.
Whatever, though. I obviously have no credibility to you, being a Republican.
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lilburtonboy7489

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#13  Edited By lilburtonboy7489

"1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods"

Looks like we have socialism to me.

We have price controls, a central bank, unbelievable amount of regulations, government control over the roads, water, police, education. The government controls our retirement money, we have welfare, We have government border control, government controls the type of medium of exchange we use, the government gives subsidies to certain businesses, we have bailouts, we have government sponsored unions, we have capital gains tax, income tax, corporate tax, sales tax, and inheritance tax. We have a property tax, which means we don't own property, we rent it. We regulate the stock market. We have medicare and medicade. We have a government controlled fractional reserve banking system, so the government controls the credit.

If we don't have socialism, I don't know what it. But either way, it's just semantics. What was considered socialism 70 years ago, is now called mixed market capitalism. Arguing over semantics is pointless. What we do have, is a massive government which is involved with nearly every area of our lives.

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Gunner

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#14  Edited By Gunner
lilburtonboy7489 said:
""What we do have, is a massive government which is involved with nearly every area of our lives.
"
You must be mixing up state government with national government. Not everyone wants Anarchism like you do.
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lilburtonboy7489

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#15  Edited By lilburtonboy7489
Gunner said:
"lilburtonboy7489 said:
""What we do have, is a massive government which is involved with nearly every area of our lives.
"
You must be mixing up state government with national government. Not everyone wants Anarchism like you do."
Government is government. State or national is irrelevant.

Also, what everyone wants is completely irrelevant to my post.
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Gunner

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#16  Edited By Gunner
lilburtonboy7489 said:
"Gunner said:
"lilburtonboy7489 said:
""What we do have, is a massive government which is involved with nearly every area of our lives.
"
You must be mixing up state government with national government. Not everyone wants Anarchism like you do."
Government is government. State or national is irrelevant.Also, what everyone wants is completely irrelevant to my post. "
You like the word Irrelevant dont you?
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lilburtonboy7489

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#17  Edited By lilburtonboy7489
Gunner said:
"lilburtonboy7489 said:
"Gunner said:
"lilburtonboy7489 said:
""What we do have, is a massive government which is involved with nearly every area of our lives.
"
You must be mixing up state government with national government. Not everyone wants Anarchism like you do."
Government is government. State or national is irrelevant.Also, what everyone wants is completely irrelevant to my post. "
You like the word Irrelevant dont you? "
Only when it's relevant.
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vidiot

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#18  Edited By vidiot
BoG said:
"Oh, and on foreign policy, I'd say Republicans have had a much better record for foreign policy relative to democratic presidents. As honorable as the Carter doctrine was, it failed to accomplish anything."
...where...where have you been the last eight years...
Please repeat this sentence again, but this time bring up the giant elephant in the room that is Iraq in conjunction for your argument. Please. This is exactly the type of stuff Jax was talking about in his blog post. I want to keep this civil as possible because I honestly don't get it, I'm not yelling or angry, just asking casually:

How the heck can you possibly say that after everything that has happened. How?
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luthorcrow

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#19  Edited By luthorcrow
BoG said:
"As a registered Republican, I'm so happy to see that you can so easily generalize all Republicans as evil, greedy, close-minded fascists who worship FOX news and Limbaugh....Whatever, though. I obviously have no credibility to you, being a Republican."

Not in my book.  I think the problem is it is clear that Rush and Palin and others like them have the stage and when people like that are being treated seriously something is really off.  To hear the head of the RCN apologize to Rush for calling him an "entertainer" marks a low point.  The problem is moderates have either been run out of the party or have been railroaded by the extreme right.  If the Republicans continue to swing right and be the party of "NO" then then their numbers will continue to dwindle and they truly will become just a regional (South and the Bible Belt) party.  The last 8 years and today, the Republican Party has demonized, lied and run the country into the ground.  Its hard to have a discourse when you demonize the other side.  I think one thing we should all notice is how Obama has not engaged in demonizing the other side the way Bush/Cheney did for 8 years and as the current Republican party continues to do today.

The fact is that is not good for the nation.  I am not Republican and have generally not liked your party but different viewpoints are what makes a Democracy work.

On the other hand just saying "NO" and repeating failed economic policies of tax cuts for corporations and the wealthy is a bankrupt game plan.  I am in California and I have watched our governor struggle with the obstinance of his own party and their attempts to derail the state into bankruptcy to avoid any new taxes.  The fact is two things are killing California and no one wants to talk about it.  Prop 13 (killed property tax revenues to our schools) and the 3 strikes law.   We are 47 out of 50 on spending on school kids, I believe its about $7500 per year or less while we spend more than $75,000 on our inmates.
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BoG

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#20  Edited By BoG
vidiot said:
"BoG said:
"Oh, and on foreign policy, I'd say Republicans have had a much better record for foreign policy relative to democratic presidents. As honorable as the Carter doctrine was, it failed to accomplish anything."
...where...where have you been the last eight years...Please repeat this sentence again, but this time bring up the giant elephant in the room that is Iraq in conjunction for your argument. Please. This is exactly the type of stuff Jax was talking about in his blog post. I want to keep this civil as possible because I honestly don't get it, I'm not yelling or angry, just asking casually:How the heck can you possibly say that after everything that has happened. How?"
Bush's foreign policy isn't my favorite. I really think preemptive action is the wrong course for America. However, Bush had excellent foreign policy with Russia, Israel, and he did more than you know for Tibet. Not saying it is great, but better than the general perception. Oh, and: Vietnam.

Luthorcrow said:
"BoG said:
"As a registered Republican, I'm so happy to see that you can so easily generalize all Republicans as evil, greedy, close-minded fascists who worship FOX news and Limbaugh....Whatever, though. I obviously have no credibility to you, being a Republican."

Not in my book.  I think the problem is it is clear that Rush and Palin and others like them have the stage and when people like that are being treated seriously something is really off.  To hear the head of the RCN apologize to Rush for calling him an "entertainer" marks a low point.  The problem is moderates have either been run out of the party or have been railroaded by the extreme right.  If the Republicans continue to swing right and be the party of "NO" then then their numbers will continue to dwindle and they truly will become just a regional (South and the Bible Belt) party.  The last 8 years and today, the Republican Party has demonized, lied and run the country into the ground.  Its hard to have a discourse when you demonize the other side.  I think one thing we should all notice is how Obama has not engaged in demonizing the other side the way Bush/Cheney did for 8 years and as the current Republican party continues to do today..
"

I don't  disagree with you. I'd say I'm a moderate republican, I actually consider my self in the center. I hate the idea that Rush and Palin are becoming the voices of the party. The Democrats are brilliant in the way they are painting the republican party as the party of Rush Limbaugh.  Jax called him a "racist, sexist pig." John Stewart said last night that Rush believes so strongly in the sanctity of marriage, he's completed three of them. Rush Limbaugh is an abhorrent human being. That sums up my thoughts on the man. I think Mr.Steele was very wrong to apologize for speaking the truth, and it doesn't help the party at all if he can't have some backbone. The party still thinks it is in an illusory debt to Limbaugh for his voice in 1994. I think's it's time the party denounced the man and labelled him as an entertainer. What's he going to do, switch sides? What in the world are they afraid of?
Anyways, I agree that the extreme right and the religious right are a disease within the party. I fear the extreme right as much as I fear the extreme left. I remain a republican because hope does remain for the party. I am a huge fan of my state's governor, Jon Huntsman Jr., who is governs as the republicans in congress say they want to govern, fiscally conservative. Gov. Huntsman fights to keep nuclear waste out of the state, preserve the lands, reduce pollution, and provide rights to everyone in the state. He's the man the party needs.
I personally think the party needs to take a few steps. First, dump the far right, and dump a few social issues. I'm sorry, but homosexual rights are inevitable. The party needs to preach something that isn't "all tax cuts all the time," and needs to start talking about economic and government reform to reduce costs. The party needs to embrace the values of Lincoln and T. Roosevelt, some of the greatest republicans. The party needs to cut the "democrats are socialists" diatribe and start giving more moderate solutions for welfare and economic intervention. The republicans need to move to the center as Nancy Pelosi goes left.
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n8

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#21  Edited By n8

OK here's my rant:

I'm a 26 year old mechanical engineer.   I work for a living and here's what I see:  I see what percentage of my money goes to the government (over 30%), which in turn is now going to welfare checks and STD research thanks to Obama. 

You think I'm greedy?  You think I'm one sided?   When someone who has worked hard to make money and succeeds is called greedy, this country is LOST.

What happens when the prospect of actually making money in turn for your hard work is no longer there?  What happens when people like me realize that there IS NO benefit for doing the kind of work that I do.  Maybe I should sit on my ass and expect Obama to take care of me?

Pull your head out of your asses people.  This country was built on the principle that IF the government taxes you... there had better be a damn good reason.  And thanks to people like Obama and all his cronies in congress, we have never been farther from that principle.

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Kr3lian

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#22  Edited By Kr3lian
n8 said:
"OK here's my rant:I'm a 26 year old mechanical engineer.   I work for a living and here's what I see:  I see what percentage of my money goes to the government (over 30%), which in turn is now going to welfare checks and STD research thanks to Obama.  You think I'm greedy?  You think I'm one sided?   When someone who has worked hard to make money and succeeds is called greedy, this country is LOST.What happens when the prospect of actually making money in turn for your hard work is no longer there?  What happens when people like me realize that there IS NO benefit for doing the kind of work that I do.  Maybe I should sit on my ass and expect Obama to take care of me?Pull your head out of your asses people.  This country was built on the principle that IF the government taxes you... there had better be a damn good reason.  And thanks to people like Obama and all his cronies in congress, we have never been farther from that principle."

Would you be offended if I said, yes, you are selfish?  I am sure there are government-funded services that you fully support (i.e. I am sure you are glad we have a functioning military).  You just don't like to help poor people.  You probably haven't even met any, other than the mentally ill homeless people you run into from time to time.  Or, let me guess, you grew up poor!  Your parents only had BASIC cable.

If you don't feel like there is an incentive to work, why don't you stop working?  I call BS.  You're not exactly running for the welfare lines, buddy.
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super_machine

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#23  Edited By super_machine
n8 said:
"OK here's my rant:I'm a 26 year old mechanical engineer.   I work for a living and here's what I see:  I see what percentage of my money goes to the government (over 30%), which in turn is now going to welfare checks and STD research thanks to Obama.  You think I'm greedy?  You think I'm one sided?   When someone who has worked hard to make money and succeeds is called greedy, this country is LOST.What happens when the prospect of actually making money in turn for your hard work is no longer there?  What happens when people like me realize that there IS NO benefit for doing the kind of work that I do.  Maybe I should sit on my ass and expect Obama to take care of me?Pull your head out of your asses people.  This country was built on the principle that IF the government taxes you... there had better be a damn good reason.  And thanks to people like Obama and all his cronies in congress, we have never been farther from that principle."
  I always thought that a good society only works when everyone gives up something for the benefit of the whole. Call it socialism if you want, but its true. Give me an example of a society that worked when the people who had everything shared nothing. Making a sacrifice for the greater good may be serving the in the military, doing community service, donating to charity, or paying taxes and letting government do the ground work. I know the later is not the best sollution, but in many cases government is the only entity capable of helping people gain a better standard of living for people when capitol industry turns their back. I dont enjoy having to pay the rediculous property tax in my city, but I have top notch emergency services, well funded schools, road service, nice parks and a world class library. So in the end, what I give up contributes to making a better standard for living in the city I live in. I have no problem with government helping to better society, just as long as its done responsibly.
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Kr3lian

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#24  Edited By Kr3lian
super_machine said:
"n8 said:
"OK here's my rant:I'm a 26 year old mechanical engineer.   I work for a living and here's what I see:  I see what percentage of my money goes to the government (over 30%), which in turn is now going to welfare checks and STD research thanks to Obama.  You think I'm greedy?  You think I'm one sided?   When someone who has worked hard to make money and succeeds is called greedy, this country is LOST.What happens when the prospect of actually making money in turn for your hard work is no longer there?  What happens when people like me realize that there IS NO benefit for doing the kind of work that I do.  Maybe I should sit on my ass and expect Obama to take care of me?Pull your head out of your asses people.  This country was built on the principle that IF the government taxes you... there had better be a damn good reason.  And thanks to people like Obama and all his cronies in congress, we have never been farther from that principle."
  I always thought that a good society only works when everyone gives up something for the benefit of the whole. Call it socialism if you want, but its true. Give me an example of a society that worked when the people who had everything shared nothing. Making a sacrifice for the greater good may be serving the in the military, doing community service, donating to charity, or paying taxes and letting government do the ground work. I know the later is not the best sollution, but in many cases government is the only entity capable of helping people gain a better standard of living for people when capitol industry turns their back. I dont enjoy having to pay the rediculous property tax in my city, but I have top notch emergency services, well funded schools, road service, nice parks and a world class library. So in the end, what I give up contributes to making a better standard for living in the city I live in. I have no problem with government helping to better society, just as long as its done responsibly. "

BUT BUT BUT...That's SOCIALISM!  And socialism is BAD!  Um.  Because of Hitler!  AND Stalin!  We don't want to be like Europe, Europe sucks!  Nobody likes it there!  Same with Japan!  USA is the best country in the world WOOT!

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super_machine

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#25  Edited By super_machine
Kr3lian said:
"super_machine said:
"n8 said:
"OK here's my rant:I'm a 26 year old mechanical engineer.   I work for a living and here's what I see:  I see what percentage of my money goes to the government (over 30%), which in turn is now going to welfare checks and STD research thanks to Obama.  You think I'm greedy?  You think I'm one sided?   When someone who has worked hard to make money and succeeds is called greedy, this country is LOST.What happens when the prospect of actually making money in turn for your hard work is no longer there?  What happens when people like me realize that there IS NO benefit for doing the kind of work that I do.  Maybe I should sit on my ass and expect Obama to take care of me?Pull your head out of your asses people.  This country was built on the principle that IF the government taxes you... there had better be a damn good reason.  And thanks to people like Obama and all his cronies in congress, we have never been farther from that principle."
  I always thought that a good society only works when everyone gives up something for the benefit of the whole. Call it socialism if you want, but its true. Give me an example of a society that worked when the people who had everything shared nothing. Making a sacrifice for the greater good may be serving the in the military, doing community service, donating to charity, or paying taxes and letting government do the ground work. I know the later is not the best sollution, but in many cases government is the only entity capable of helping people gain a better standard of living for people when capitol industry turns their back. I dont enjoy having to pay the rediculous property tax in my city, but I have top notch emergency services, well funded schools, road service, nice parks and a world class library. So in the end, what I give up contributes to making a better standard for living in the city I live in. I have no problem with government helping to better society, just as long as its done responsibly. "
BUT BUT BUT...That's SOCIALISM!  And socialism is BAD!  Um.  Because of Hitler!  AND Stalin!  We don't want to be like Europe, Europe sucks!  Nobody likes it there!  Same with Japan!  USA is the best country in the world WOOT!"
Hmmm, the time I spent in Europe, everything looked pretty good actually. The people I met had a good standard of living and seemed to enjoy their lives even though government played a bigger role in the day to day. I think a lot of people in this country put too much faith in the greed and egotism of the current American system. Sorry but conservatism isn't the answer in politics. As time progresses, ideas change and adapt to the current state of the world.  Yes, I am happy and moderately successful in the living in the US, and I still love my country. This place is sick, and If we are truely the example of  the best society in the world, then the future of human civilization is fucked.
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SathingtonWaltz

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#26  Edited By SathingtonWaltz
super_machine said:
"Kr3lian said:
"super_machine said:
"n8 said:
"OK here's my rant:I'm a 26 year old mechanical engineer.   I work for a living and here's what I see:  I see what percentage of my money goes to the government (over 30%), which in turn is now going to welfare checks and STD research thanks to Obama.  You think I'm greedy?  You think I'm one sided?   When someone who has worked hard to make money and succeeds is called greedy, this country is LOST.What happens when the prospect of actually making money in turn for your hard work is no longer there?  What happens when people like me realize that there IS NO benefit for doing the kind of work that I do.  Maybe I should sit on my ass and expect Obama to take care of me?Pull your head out of your asses people.  This country was built on the principle that IF the government taxes you... there had better be a damn good reason.  And thanks to people like Obama and all his cronies in congress, we have never been farther from that principle."
  I always thought that a good society only works when everyone gives up something for the benefit of the whole. Call it socialism if you want, but its true. Give me an example of a society that worked when the people who had everything shared nothing. Making a sacrifice for the greater good may be serving the in the military, doing community service, donating to charity, or paying taxes and letting government do the ground work. I know the later is not the best sollution, but in many cases government is the only entity capable of helping people gain a better standard of living for people when capitol industry turns their back. I dont enjoy having to pay the rediculous property tax in my city, but I have top notch emergency services, well funded schools, road service, nice parks and a world class library. So in the end, what I give up contributes to making a better standard for living in the city I live in. I have no problem with government helping to better society, just as long as its done responsibly. "
BUT BUT BUT...That's SOCIALISM!  And socialism is BAD!  Um.  Because of Hitler!  AND Stalin!  We don't want to be like Europe, Europe sucks!  Nobody likes it there!  Same with Japan!  USA is the best country in the world WOOT!"
Hmmm, the time I spent in Europe, everything looked pretty good actually. The people I met had a good standard of living and seemed to enjoy their lives even though government played a bigger role in the day to day. I think a lot of people in this country put too much faith in the greed and egotism of the current American system. Sorry but conservatism isn't the answer in politics. As time progresses, ideas change and adapt to the current state of the world.  Yes, I am happy and moderately successful in the living in the US, and I still love my country. This place is sick, and If we are truely the example of  the best society in the world, then the future of human civilization is fucked."
I agree. Whether or not Obama succeeds, at least he's trying something different. He's being progressive, and I view any progressive as something the country needs. Moving forward with ideas and policy is truly the only way to go. Things on this planet survive because they adapt and change over time. I apply this to government as well. A government that adapts and changes along with the ideas and people with it is a good government. A government that tries to uphold the standards of the past, will not survive. 
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toowalrus

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#27  Edited By toowalrus

/yawn

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n8

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#28  Edited By n8
Kr3lian said:
Would you be offended if I said, yes, you are selfish?  I am sure there are government-funded services that you fully support (i.e. I am sure you are glad we have a functioning military).  You just don't like to help poor people.  You probably haven't even met any, other than the mentally ill homeless people you run into from time to time.  Or, let me guess, you grew up poor!  Your parents only had BASIC cable.If you don't feel like there is an incentive to work, why don't you stop working?  I call BS.  You're not exactly running for the welfare lines, buddy."

If guys like you want to go help the poor then go donate to the poor.  Do it yourself.  You really want crooks like Rahm Emmanuel and Timothy Geitner delegating your money for you?

What in the world has given you guys so much faith in government?  Look at the way they've handled social security.  Look at the national debt.  We'll be paying off China for the next century because of all the money Obama is spending on pet projects and earmarks. 

You people who begged for change better be careful what you wish for.  Keep your eyes peeled.
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Kr3lian

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#29  Edited By Kr3lian
n8 said:
If guys like you want to go help the poor then go donate to the poor.  Do it yourself.  You really want crooks like Rahm Emmanuel and Timothy Geitner delegating your money for you?What in the world has given you guys so much faith in government?  Look at the way they've handled social security.  Look at the national debt.  We'll be paying off China for the next century because of all the money Obama is spending on pet projects and earmarks.  You people who begged for change better be careful what you wish for.  Keep your eyes peeled."

Awesome, I'll pay for the poor and opt out of the things I don't feel like paying for, like the FDA.  I am fine growing my own vegetables.  And highways, I would rather use light rail.  Oh, and You can also cover the farm subsidies.  Oh, and if you wouldn't mind, would you also pay for border security?  I don't really care about that either.  Oh, and if you wouldn't mind, would you also fund the space program?  I don't find a use for satellites.  Actually, while you're at it, why don't you cover the cost of the legal apparatus that protects the rights of the entity that employs you.  I don't really give a crap about that, either.  Also, because I don't feel any particular threat of invasion, I'll let you cover the costs of the military.  Deal?

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Snipzor

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#30  Edited By Snipzor
n8 said:
"Kr3lian said:
Would you be offended if I said, yes, you are selfish?  I am sure there are government-funded services that you fully support (i.e. I am sure you are glad we have a functioning military).  You just don't like to help poor people.  You probably haven't even met any, other than the mentally ill homeless people you run into from time to time.  Or, let me guess, you grew up poor!  Your parents only had BASIC cable.If you don't feel like there is an incentive to work, why don't you stop working?  I call BS.  You're not exactly running for the welfare lines, buddy."
If guys like you want to go help the poor then go donate to the poor.  Do it yourself.  You really want crooks like Rahm Emmanuel and Timothy Geitner delegating your money for you?What in the world has given you guys so much faith in government?  Look at the way they've handled social security.  Look at the national debt.  We'll be paying off China for the next century because of all the money Obama is spending on pet projects and earmarks.  You people who begged for change better be careful what you wish for.  Keep your eyes peeled."
They almost fully privatized social security, then it became a failure. You want to know who caused the national debt? People who spouted "fiscal conservatism" who then doubled the debt (Half of which was caused by two consecutive republican presidents, one many worship while another is a Bush). If you think most of the debt will be caused by Obama, then you know next to nothing about what's going on. He doesn't even have to spend this money if a certain jackass didn't fuck up so damn bad.
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n8

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#31  Edited By n8
Snipzor said:
They almost fully privatized social security, then it became a failure. You want to know who caused the national debt? People who spouted "fiscal conservatism" who then doubled the debt (Half of which was caused by two consecutive republican presidents, one many worship while another is a Bush). If you think most of the debt will be caused by Obama, then you know next to nothing about what's going on. He doesn't even have to spend this money if a certain jackass didn't fuck up so damn bad.
Hahaha,

I know!  Let's stimulate our economy by spending 3 trillion on welfare, education and healthcare reform.

This is exactly the kind of bullshit that is fucking our country up:  The ideal that Obama has instated is that you can somehow spend your way out of an economic crisis.

I can totally understand hating Bush (and republicans as a whole for that matter).  But buying into Obama's ridiculous spending agenda because of it?  Pull your heads out of your asses people.
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Snipzor

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#32  Edited By Snipzor
n8 said:
"Snipzor said:
They almost fully privatized social security, then it became a failure. You want to know who caused the national debt? People who spouted "fiscal conservatism" who then doubled the debt (Half of which was caused by two consecutive republican presidents, one many worship while another is a Bush). If you think most of the debt will be caused by Obama, then you know next to nothing about what's going on. He doesn't even have to spend this money if a certain jackass didn't fuck up so damn bad.
Hahaha, I know!  Let's stimulate our economy by spending 3 trillion on welfare, education and healthcare reform.This is exactly the kind of bullshit that is fucking our country up:  The ideal that Obama has instated is that you can somehow spend your way out of an economic crisis.I can totally understand hating Bush (and republicans as a whole for that matter).  But buying into Obama's ridiculous spending agenda because of it?  Pull your heads out of your asses people."
Great idea! Let's ensure that our children, the future of our society and not the current nuisance we must deal with, are retarded in the future. Let's ensure that we aren't healthy or competent. Let's not spend anything on energy or infrastructure. I have my issues with the stimulus bill, but it isn't the earmark ridden devil creation you are making it out to be. Plus welfare isn't the issue in the bill, unless your definition of it is wide and undefinable.

I am reminded of this cartoon.
No Caption Provided


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BODDAH

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#33  Edited By BODDAH

Anybody who calls an ideology evil rightly deserves to be hit by a car. Just my opinion. I'm a conservative, and by no means are liberals evil. Without them, we would not be as prosperous as we are today. Likewise for conservatives.

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RedSpartan104

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#34  Edited By RedSpartan104

jax this is not the site to be spreading your own propaganda . This site is for games not Political BS. and if you want my opinion on this retarted post less government equals less problems and capitalism is not greedy and evil its progress that builds a nation. greed is a emotional response from envious eyes. America needs another Ronald Reagan not a government growing obama.

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n8

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#35  Edited By n8
Snipzor said:
They almost fully privatized social security, then it became a failure. You want to know who caused the national debt? People who spouted "fiscal conservatism" who then doubled the debt (Half of which was caused by two consecutive republican presidents, one many worship while another is a Bush). If you think most of the debt will be caused by Obama, then you know next to nothing about what's going on. He doesn't even have to spend this money if a certain jackass didn't fuck up so damn bad.
WOW.

This is exactly the kind of garbage I'm talking about.

I know!  Let's save the fucked up economy that Bush gave us by spending $3 trillion on welfare, education and healthcare reform!

Look I can understand hating Bush (and even Republicans..  they have lost their way)...  but buying into Obama's ridiculous spending agenda because of it? 

Come on man...
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Kr3lian

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#36  Edited By Kr3lian
RedSpartan104 said:
"jax this is not the site to be spreading your own propaganda . This site is for games not Political BS. and if you want my opinion on this retarted post less government equals less problems and capitalism is not greedy and evil its progress that builds a nation. greed is a emotional response from envious eyes. America needs another Ronald Reagan not a government growing obama."

I think it is the juxtaposition of opposites here that makes it delicious for a "silly and inane post" connoisseur such as myself.

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Snipzor

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#37  Edited By Snipzor
RedSpartan104 said:
"jax this is not the site to be spreading your own propaganda . This site is for games not Political BS. and if you want my opinion on this retarted post less government equals less problems and capitalism is not greedy and evil its progress that builds a nation. greed is a emotional response from envious eyes. America needs another Ronald Reagan not a government growing obama."
Someone called?
Someone called?

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granderojo

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#38  Edited By granderojo

America is moving toward a social democracy, it is like socialism but not the same, for better or for worse.  We are actually witnessing the same problems the swedes dealt with when they made the transition from a system we have to social democracy.  Look it up in the early 90's they had a mortgage bubble that mirrored ours.  Idunno if this is entirely a good thing, but it is what is happening.  They are going to nationalize the banks or atleast semi-nationalize, then they will bring in healthcare and keep ramping up entitlements.

I just hope to god they continue to raise taxes, the biggest problem with Bush was not his tax cuts, but his inability to lower spending.   Nothing is wrong with a tax cut unless you decrease spending.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy

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BiG_Weasel

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#39  Edited By BiG_Weasel

Conservative or liberal, at the crux of the whole issue is the state of democracy in America. At this point in time, the majority of Americans are against gov't spending to support banks, credit institutions, and the like that very simply  abused their station to make money at the expense of their customer.  The same thing for the auto bailout- people didn't want the big SUVs when gas was $4/gallon, and now we're having to cover for them.  The last I checked, "democracy" was majority rule, and if our representatives aren't listening to what the population is saying, then this country just became a dictatorship- whatever Obama says goes, it would seem.


Here's how I see the year 2009 going down:  By May, gasoline will continue to increase in price to upwards of $4/gallon again this year.  That will severely hamper the economy because people who are already scared of losing their job will cut down on running around unneccessarily. This will also increase the cost of consumer goods, which those same people will buy less of than they already are.  The less money flowing into & around the economy, the more likely the slide will continue.  Bank stock prices will continue to drop because people won't be asking the banks to borrow money, because they're afraid they won't be able to pay it back.  Consumer-driven companies' stock will decline in value because of the lack of revenue they're pulling in.  Home values will continue to decline, because of the 'job scared' mentality of potential homebuyers.  Media outlets, who are already seeing a steep decline in ad revenue, will start dropping like flies as companies cut their advertising budgets in hopes of staying afloat.  Most news sites will have to switch to a pay-per-view type of setup, with premium content costing more.

The only way I can see us coming out of this is to increase customer spending through confidence. Our Gross Domestic Product is the lowest we've had in years. What we need to do is get away from the service-oriented mindset of today's business and get back to the basics of manufacturing commodities- products that the entire world needs (machinery, textiles, furniture).  Once we were the manufacturing powerhouse of the world, and if we had our own people working at that again, it would give us definite job security.
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#40  Edited By BoG

Reading through everything, it's become more apparent to me that the biggest issue we face in America is partisanship. The European perception of America seems to be that we're a one party state, as our leaders move to the center to satisfy their constituents. You'd never think that possible growing up here because both parties excel at making themselves seem vastly different than their opponents. Most democrats aren't in favor of government takeover, destroying the private sector, complete socialism or a state that intervenes in every facet of our lives. However, people like Rush Limbaugh have successfully lied to people that all of these things are true. These days, there is a growing fear within me that the Democrat's most recent attack on my party, that Rush is the true voice, might actually be true. I'm afraid that maybe the pastors of southern churches may be the voice of my party, and with Michael Steele's fear to take decisive action that would really revive the party, it's only becoming more true.

As I said, most democrats don't favor extreme left ideas, but then we have Nancy Pelosi, and a legion of internet bloggers who do. I really agree with this statement made earlier:
BODDAH said:
"Anybody who calls an ideology evil rightly deserves to be hit by a car. Just my opinion. I'm a conservative, and by no means are liberals evil. Without them, we would not be as prosperous as we are today. Likewise for conservatives."
As Boddah said, the ideologies, though different, complement each other in the end. Working together creates success. We really can't afford to have either party bite the dust, though some dream of this. Were either party to die, we'd be on the road to far right or left, two very frightening places to be. Despite what so many people think, George Bush didn't take office with the intention to do anyone any harm, nor did Obama, Clinton, Reagan, Bush sr., or any other president. The idea that one ideology is inherently evil is absurd.
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MarcusOfLycia

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#41  Edited By MarcusOfLycia

Socialism was tried many, many times in Europe over 100 years ago. It doesn't work. Their business taxes are now lower than ours, as a result. Despite all the 'goodness' towards others that the responders to this thread seem to think is inherent in human beings, it has been proven otherwise. The greatest incentive for financial development is the prospect of improving one's situation.

The point of political parties is so that voices of different opinions have room to speak. Its part of the process to demonize the other side, and if you need a refresher course on this fact I cite to you the entire scope of human recorded history. I find it truly arrogant when people claim to be above this. Demonizing Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, or any other self-proclaimed conservative and claiming yourself to be above such demonizing is the very definition of hypocrisy and demonstrates a lack of understanding.

Modern conservatism is a lot like classical liberalism. It's emphasis is on free markets, individual liberty and responsibility, and low government involvement. No conservative would claim that the government isn't needed; that's anarchy, and doesn't work in human society. However, if you want a logical, thought-out definition of this limited government, I suggest that you stop pointing to the 1950's, and instead read the various documents and writings of the Founding Fathers, specifically anything by Thomas Jefferson. They did not oppose the existence of government, only its corruption and overbearing presence.

Our nation's government has come to resemble the tyrannical form of England from which we originally rebelled. In this case, however, our weaponry is far inferior to that of the government, making rebellion impossible. Despite what you may think, democracies have a life cycle, and ours is coming into its final stages. It won't be a war that stops ours, but economic disaster. Just as France spent itself into oblivion and 100 years of rebellion in the 17-1800's, so too will we reap the rewards of spending more money than there is wealth in this nation. You don't have to be a conservative to simply look at history and see the parallels there, and it should terrify people. But it won't... humans are at least moderately predictable, and we will repeat the mistakes of the past without flaw. Just wait and see.

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TwoOneFive

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#42  Edited By TwoOneFive

o well, i consider myself a "true" conservative and i think that guys like limbaugh and hannity have totally fucked this party up the ass and now theres really not a big difference between the two parties. ithey call em Neo-Cons for a reason. besides, its the Democrats that turned guys like Hannity and Limbaugh into the faces of the republican party.

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#43  Edited By Famov

The classic strawman: Make a ridiculous argument and attribute it to one perceived 'group' that you wish to demonize so that the fact that your opinions are entirely indefensible is completely ignored.

I could try to imply that Michael Moore represents every single liberal/democrat/socialist, but then I would be indulging in the same sillyness. I will not do that. 

You're subjected to Rush, Hannity and Fox News everyday? Funny thing, I'm a self proclaimed conservative and I'm not subjected to it at all. It seems that you're watching and listening to the wrong networks.

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Snipzor

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#44  Edited By Snipzor
Famov said:
"

The classic strawman: Make a ridiculous argument and attribute it to one perceived 'group' that you wish to demonize so that the fact that your opinions are entirely indefensible is completely ignored.

I could try to imply that Michael Moore represents every single liberal/democrat/socialist, but then I would be indulging in the same sillyness. I will not do that. 

You're subjected to Rush, Hannity and Fox News everyday? Funny thing, I'm a self proclaimed conservative and I'm not subjected to it at all. It seems that you're watching and listening to the wrong networks.

"
The thing is that he is forced to listen to that tripe, and there is a massive market for it. So many damn conservatives give such a crap about these people it isn't hard to generalize a population that is in some part associated with these idiots. It's actually quite the frightening number.
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Jax

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#45  Edited By Jax
Famov said:
"

The classic strawman: Make a ridiculous argument and attribute it to one perceived 'group' that you wish to demonize so that the fact that your opinions are entirely indefensible is completely ignored.

I could try to imply that Michael Moore represents every single liberal/democrat/socialist, but then I would be indulging in the same sillyness. I will not do that. 

You're subjected to Rush, Hannity and Fox News everyday? Funny thing, I'm a self proclaimed conservative and I'm not subjected to it at all. It seems that you're watching and listening to the wrong networks.

"

If you had read my post, instead of skimming through and jumping to your own preconceived notions, you would have read that I said "My Grandmother is a hard Republican, and she watches it." Therefor, I am subjected to it because I am her caretaker and I cannot and will not tell her what to listen to. I have every right to voice my opinion. For the last eight years we have mocked, ridiculed and talked badly about Bush for a reason... the man deserved it. And the GOP voted for him. "Four more years! Four more years!" was their creed, and now they have alienated from him because of his fuck ups, yet you all voted for him. That's your fault, not liberals. So don't try and pin the last 8 years on everyone and abscond yourself from any wrong doing, because I'm sure your vote was for him in 2000 and in 2004. Calling me a strawman because I have an opinion which differs from yours... I'd call that name calling, and ironic in a way. Labeling me something when I can label you as a hypocrite.

I understand that there is a party system to maintain rule. Yet the issue with America is that, like with everything, we label our ideologies and beliefs in black and white. 1 and 2. There are only two parties in this country (I don't count libertarian because they have little voice in the big picture). Because of our naivete and "I'm right, you're wrong" ideologies we will forever be destined to have a two party system and forever be at one anothers throats blaming one another for this countries faults. Though, the GOP was my main topic in this blog because I find it hilarious when I listen to Fox News how they never bring up Bush. They always being up Obama, and how now we're turning socialist. Obama walked into this shit, he didn't create it. Conservatives hate the idea of spending because they cling onto the notion of capitalism and free market virtue. Well that's all well and good, and I don't think anyone here would disagree with that. But when you have only the top 10% of the population making the big bucks, and the rest squandering, the GOP is quick to say "let them all die, they chose their path, fuck em." As if we have a choice to lose our jobs because we didn't make $1,000,000 bonuses for being "valuable assets" to wallstreet. It's an oxymoron. The wealthy control the fate of those who work for them and those who they represent because they have the money. The government has rules and regulations to stop the big greedy assholes from taking advantage of the other 302,000,000 who don't have he luxury of coming into wealth, or having multi billion dollar ideas. Yes, good - capitalism, the idea that anyone with an idea can become anything they want. Well we don't all have great ideas. We all don't come from old money. Most of us only have general services to offer society, yet we should be labeled as "poor" or "unmotivated" by the bible thumping hard right wingers who would rather have us all rot in desperation because THEY DIDN'T REGULATE THEMSELVES which in turn screwed half the fucking population. So now, the government is going to step in, and control the way things work. If this is socialism, then let it be. I'd rather live in a fair society where I am watched over by my government than in a society where those with money get to dictate and control everything.
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BoG

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#46  Edited By BoG

I don't have much to say in response to what you said Jax, but:

1. I don't think you quite understand the concept of a strawman, or as you put it, "stickman"
2. You're second argument may be more of a straw man than the first
3. Were I not 10 years old at the time, I'd have voted for Al Gore, despite my affiliation. Not in hindsight, but because we needed an environmentalist president.

Also, MarcusofLycia's post was excellent.
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Jax

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#47  Edited By Jax
BoG said:
"I don't have much to say in response to what you said Jax, but:
1. I don't think you quite understand the concept of a strawman, or as you put it, "stickman"
2. You're second argument may be more of a straw man than the first
3. Were I not 10 years old at the time, I'd have voted for Al Gore, despite my affiliation. Not in hindsight, but because we needed an environmentalist president.

Also, MarcusofLycia's post was excellent.
"

It was a typo, I've been playing a lot of stickdeath flash games lately, lol.
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kmdrkul

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#48  Edited By kmdrkul

I came in here expecting awesome music from Rush.  I was extremely disappointed.

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#49  Edited By BiG_Weasel
kmdrkul said:
"I came in here expecting awesome music from Rush.  I was extremely disappointed."
No such thing as "awesome" music from Rush....
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luthorcrow

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#50  Edited By luthorcrow
BoG said:
...Anyways, I agree that the extreme right and the religious right are a disease within the party. I fear the extreme right as much as I fear the extreme left. I remain a republican because hope does remain for the party. I am a huge fan of my state's governor, Jon Huntsman Jr...The party needs to embrace the values of Lincoln and T. Roosevelt, some of the greatest republicans. The party needs to cut the "democrats are socialists" diatribe and start giving more moderate solutions for welfare and economic intervention. The republicans need to move to the center as Nancy Pelosi goes left.

That sounds like a plan.   I did vote the Gov-a-nator and I hadn't regretted that vote.  But I do agree the Republicans need to find reasonability again.   Lee Atwater really sowed the seeds that has destroyed rationality, fairness and morality in the party.  The real difference between him and Rove is that Lee forged the model for dirty election campaigning and Rove took the same tactics and used them as a game plane for governing once elected.

LOL, I don't consider Nancy that left but she is no Tip O'Neil that's for sure.  My main complaint about her is that a the Speaker of The House needs to know how to work the both sides of the house and how to mend fences behind the scenes.  That's just a skill she lacks.

n8 said:
"OK here's my rant:I'm a 26 year old mechanical engineer.   I work for a living and here's what I see:  I see what percentage of my money goes to the government (over 30%), which in turn is now going to welfare checks and STD research thanks to Obama.  You think I'm greedy?  You think I'm one sided?   When someone who has worked hard to make money and succeeds is called greedy, this country is LOST.What happens when the prospect of actually making money in turn for your hard work is no longer there?  What happens when people like me realize that there IS NO benefit for doing the kind of work that I do.  Maybe I should sit on my ass and expect Obama to take care of me?Pull your head out of your asses people.  This country was built on the principle that IF the government taxes you... there had better be a damn good reason.  And thanks to people like Obama and all his cronies in congress, we have never been farther from that principle."

Your work for a living?  You want a cookie?  Do you really think anyone above 18 here doesn't?  You do realize that over 30% your income is one of the lowest tax burdens in the world, right?  I know being only 26 you may be a little knew to working world but that just part of working.  You site welfare and STD research as a bad thing, which is a pretty dubious claim but let's assume it is.  What small percentage of the 30%+ of your pay check do you think is going to those endeavors?  On the dollar its not much.  Tell me do you appreciate the road you drive to work on?  The clean water you drink, the cheap available electricity, the police that keep your streets safe, the street cleaners that clean those streets while you are sleeping, the sewage workers that keep your sewage pipes working, etc, etc.  Your taxes pay for a great number of things, much of which we all depend on and love.  

Tell me did it bother you that the last 8 years we have been pumping billions of dollars a day into Iraq and Afangastian?  Those are all dollars that there will be no return on the investment for spending.  Where as a recent study by Moodys suggests that for every dollar we spend on food stamps we see about $1.7 return in the economy, $1.3 on infrastructure and only $.30 for tax breaks for corporations.  If anything investment in social service and medical research just good economic policy vs. failed wars (zero return) or tax breaks for the wealth (.30 return).