The PC (Personal Computer) is a highly configurable and upgradable gaming platform that, among home systems, sports the widest variety of control methods, largest library of games, and cutting edge graphics and sound capabilities.
While the demo's been out for a while, there's yet to have been an in-depth, 1080p, still-screen, side-by-side comparison of tessellation vs. no tessellation. Well no longer; check out this video to clearly see the dramatic difference between DX10 and DX11 using the Radeon HD 5970:
sweet- cheers for posting geno, sadly my old 8800gt lacks the necessary ooomph to make this new fancy fangled technology run as it should, que serah :)
@Willy105: Not quite sure how it works. But if you look at the wireframe it looks like they're essentially taking flat textures and making them like 100 times more detailed to get the new tesselated texture. But don't quote me on that. @OmegaPirate said:
" sweet- cheers for posting geno, sadly my old 8800gt lacks the necessary ooomph to make this new fancy fangled technology run as it should, que serah :) "
My graphics cards are newer, but also lack the ability to do dx11. We should keep each other company until Nvidia decides to get off its butt and release a new graphics card >.>
" Tessalation!!!! The next gimmick after anti-aliasing!!!! It just makes my computer games lag. Whatever happened to living with pixels? I also want to know how this works exactly. Does it automatically add bumps to textures, or is it pre-made? "
Gimmick? An algorithm that takes displacement maps and creates polygons based on depth information stored in the image. The more basic version of displacement mapping is normal mapping, which is the core of every next gen game since 2004 on xbox, PS, and PC.
The tesselation is written on the DX11 interface by the graphics card, the dev only puts the interface into their games. @Geno: Have fun waiting for Q1-2 2010 release of 1,7% woodscrew edition of your gt300 while I'm sitting here with my superior ATi master race card.
" Tessalation!!!! The next gimmick after anti-aliasing!!!! It just makes my computer games lag. Whatever happened to living with pixels? I also want to know how this works exactly. Does it automatically add bumps to textures, or is it pre-made? "
Gimmick? An algorithm that takes displacement maps and creates polygons based on depth information stored in the image. The more basic version of displacement mapping is normal mapping, which is the core of every next gen game since 2004 on xbox, PS, and PC. .. Gimmick?.. "
...yeah.
It just makes games harder to run on older computers, when it is not needed to make a good looking game. I don't care how mathematically complicated it's operation is, it's a gimmick because it's there for show, at least for now.
" The tesselation is written on the DX11 interface by the graphics card, the dev only puts the interface into their games. @Geno: Have fun waiting for Q1-2 2010 release of 1,7% woodscrew edition release of your gt300 while I'm sitting here with my superior ATi master race card. "
Hopefully Nvidia's new Fermi architecture will deliver on its promises and blow your ATI out of the water ;) although I suppose you have the right to act smug right now, I am pretty jealous of your 5000 cards.
@Willy105 said:
" @warxsnake said:
" @Willy105 said:
" Tessalation!!!! The next gimmick after anti-aliasing!!!! It just makes my computer games lag. Whatever happened to living with pixels? I also want to know how this works exactly. Does it automatically add bumps to textures, or is it pre-made? "
Gimmick? An algorithm that takes displacement maps and creates polygons based on depth information stored in the image. The more basic version of displacement mapping is normal mapping, which is the core of every next gen game since 2004 on xbox, PS, and PC. .. Gimmick?.. "
...yeah. It just makes games harder to run on older computers, when it is not needed to make a good looking game. I don't care how mathematically complicated it's operation is, it's a gimmick because it's there for show, at least for now. "
Er, everything regarding graphics is "there for show". Also this will be only on modern graphics cards so it shouldn't even affect old computers.
" Tessalation!!!! The next gimmick after anti-aliasing!!!! It just makes my computer games lag. Whatever happened to living with pixels? I also want to know how this works exactly. Does it automatically add bumps to textures, or is it pre-made? "
Gimmick? An algorithm that takes displacement maps and creates polygons based on depth information stored in the image. The more basic version of displacement mapping is normal mapping, which is the core of every next gen game since 2004 on xbox, PS, and PC. .. Gimmick?.. "
...yeah. It just makes games harder to run on older computers, when it is not needed to make a good looking game. I don't care how mathematically complicated it's operation is, it's a gimmick because it's there for show, at least for now. "
Graphics are there for show, we should still play in 2d.
" Tessalation!!!! The next gimmick after anti-aliasing!!!! It just makes my computer games lag. Whatever happened to living with pixels? I also want to know how this works exactly. Does it automatically add bumps to textures, or is it pre-made? "
Gimmick? An algorithm that takes displacement maps and creates polygons based on depth information stored in the image. The more basic version of displacement mapping is normal mapping, which is the core of every next gen game since 2004 on xbox, PS, and PC. .. Gimmick?.. "
...yeah. It just makes games harder to run on older computers, when it is not needed to make a good looking game. I don't care how mathematically complicated it's operation is, it's a gimmick because it's there for show, at least for now. "
Well the best thing about dx11 is that if you dont care about that particular effect, you are not required to run it, and you can run the game just fine like usual with a dx10 card which is compatible with dx11. this applies to anything on pc, its your choice for everything and its upto you.
" Tessalation!!!! The next gimmick after anti-aliasing!!!! It just makes my computer games lag. Whatever happened to living with pixels?"
You wanna talk about gimmicks? Look who's talking, Mr.Wii gamer. 640x480 resolution? Motion-sensing controller? Get out. 192x160 is where it's at. One action button. That's all you need to have fun.
" Tessalation!!!! The next gimmick after anti-aliasing!!!! It just makes my computer games lag. Whatever happened to living with pixels?"
You wanna talk about gimmicks? Look who's talking, Mr.Wii gamer. 640x480 resolution? Motion-sensing controller? Get out. 192x160 is where it's at. One action button. That's all you need to have fun.
Real gaming. No gimmicks. "
My mom had one of those. She regrets throwing it out. It would have been a real treat playing it today.
" The tesselation is written on the DX11 interface by the graphics card, the dev only puts the interface into their games. @Geno: Have fun waiting for Q1-2 2010 release of 1,7% woodscrew edition of your gt300 while I'm sitting here with my superior ATi master race card. "
Enjoy your short lived victory, you just wait Nvidia will Prevail !!!
" Tessalation!!!! The next gimmick after anti-aliasing!!!! It just makes my computer games lag. Whatever happened to living with pixels? I also want to know how this works exactly. Does it automatically add bumps to textures, or is it pre-made? "
Gimmick? An algorithm that takes displacement maps and creates polygons based on depth information stored in the image. The more basic version of displacement mapping is normal mapping, which is the core of every next gen game since 2004 on xbox, PS, and PC. .. Gimmick?.. "
...yeah. It just makes games harder to run on older computers, when it is not needed to make a good looking game. I don't care how mathematically complicated it's operation is, it's a gimmick because it's there for show, at least for now. "
Stop playing pc games if you refuse to change with the times.
It would seem that tessellation comes as a price; while the non-tessellated test maintains 40+ fps most of the time, the tessellated test dips to 20 and even sub 20 fps even on the mighty 5970. Although, these drivers are immature and are being used on an early DX11 build, so hopefully we'll see performance improvements as it matures.
+that it's a heavy duty benchmark with excessive overuse of the technology, actual games are going to make more mild uses that don't have this kind of frame rate hit but still provide a much improved image. Presumably...
" Tessalation!!!! The next gimmick after anti-aliasing!!!! It just makes my computer games lag. Whatever happened to living with pixels? I also want to know how this works exactly. Does it automatically add bumps to textures, or is it pre-made? "
Anti-aliasing is wonderful. I love good graphics.
That's a good thing. Appreciating things is good. Lots of hard work has been put into making something this beautfiul.
" Part III is up; this one tests for FPS difference between tessellation and non-tessellation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEnl8k6BcDs It would seem that tessellation comes as a price; while the non-tessellated test maintains 40+ fps most of the time, the tessellated test dips to 20 and even sub 20 fps even on the mighty 5970. Although, these drivers are immature and are being used on an early DX11 build, so hopefully we'll see performance improvements as it matures. "
Probably a driver problem, because you can maintain steady 30-40 fps with 5870 on Unigine.
@Kblt: Yeah I'm not sure what's up with that. But surely there should be a little performance drop? The tessellated wireframes look much more complex than non-tessellated wireframes.
@Geno: Of course there's a performance drop, because the CPU needs to do more calculations, but it shouldn't be so notable as you said. A single 5970 can make Crysis its personal bitch and servant.
" Tessalation!!!! The next gimmick after anti-aliasing!!!! It just makes my computer games lag. Whatever happened to living with pixels? I also want to know how this works exactly. Does it automatically add bumps to textures, or is it pre-made? "
Anti-aliasing smoothed out the image and removes the dots that pixels create. Not exactly as big a deal as 3D gaming. In fact, most PC games I play I don't use AA, because it just makes it less crisps and uses up more system resources that I could use for over 60 fps gaming. In fact, as resolution increases, the less AA you need.
@Atramentous
You are what's wrong with PC gaming. You are the kind of people that promotes developers using more complex graphics technology when it's not needed, and causing required PC specs to get higher and higher. That's killing PC gaming, you know, the lack of accessibility on playing PC games. Games should be able to be played on most computers out there, not just top of the line gaming PC's.
@Willy105: But no one was making it out to be as big a deal as 3D gaming. No one said that.
I have a good computer. This is a good thing for me. I cannot understand why you have a negative response to graphical improvement. Great graphics are part of the reason why I play games.
@Atramentous You are what's wrong with PC gaming. You are the kind of people that promotes developers using more complex graphics technology when it's not needed, and causing required PC specs to get higher and higher. That's killing PC gaming, you know, the lack of accessibility on playing PC games. Games should be able to be played on most computers out there, not just top of the line gaming PC's. "
When you buy more video cards and stuff for your computer, you also indirectly affect the sponsoring of games. Ever seen an Intel logo or ENVYdia logo before you get to the main screen?
Anti-aliasing smoothed out the image and removes the dots that pixels create. Not exactly as big a deal as 3D gaming. In fact, most PC games I play I don't use AA, because it just makes it less crisps and uses up more system resources that I could use for over 60 fps gaming. In fact, as resolution increases, the less AA you need.
@Atramentous You are what's wrong with PC gaming. You are the kind of people that promotes developers using more complex graphics technology when it's not needed, and causing required PC specs to get higher and higher. That's killing PC gaming, you know, the lack of accessibility on playing PC games. Games should be able to be played on most computers out there, not just top of the line gaming PC's. "
Nobody's forcing you to max out your settings, bro.
" @Willy105: But no one was making it out to be as big a deal as 3D gaming. No one said that. I have a good computer. This is a good thing for me. I cannot understand why you have a negative response to graphical improvement. Great graphics are part of the reason why I play games. "
I have a negative response to graphical improvements when I can't play it anymore. Otherwise, I like good graphics.
@Kblt said:
" @Willy105 said:
@Atramentous You are what's wrong with PC gaming. You are the kind of people that promotes developers using more complex graphics technology when it's not needed, and causing required PC specs to get higher and higher. That's killing PC gaming, you know, the lack of accessibility on playing PC games. Games should be able to be played on most computers out there, not just top of the line gaming PC's. "
When you buy more video cards and stuff for your computer, you also indirectly affect the sponsoring of games. Ever seen an Intel logo or ENVYdia logo before you get to the main screen? "
Exactly.
@ajamafalous said:
" @Willy105 said:
" @inkeiren , @pause422 ,
Anti-aliasing smoothed out the image and removes the dots that pixels create. Not exactly as big a deal as 3D gaming. In fact, most PC games I play I don't use AA, because it just makes it less crisps and uses up more system resources that I could use for over 60 fps gaming. In fact, as resolution increases, the less AA you need.
@Atramentous You are what's wrong with PC gaming. You are the kind of people that promotes developers using more complex graphics technology when it's not needed, and causing required PC specs to get higher and higher. That's killing PC gaming, you know, the lack of accessibility on playing PC games. Games should be able to be played on most computers out there, not just top of the line gaming PC's. "
Nobody's forcing you to max out your settings, bro. "
Tessellation's been around since like 2000. The pop in for Sacrifice was kind of odd but holey shit you could have like hundreds of units way off in the distance and see them, it was crazy. So yeah, this has been around forever and its in most big games, so improving it is always nice especially for consoles that are clearly at their breaking point. Its certainly better than blurring everything more than 10 feet away. edit Wait wait. I thought the whole thing with tessellation is it automatically simplified wireframes (or made them more complex) based on how far away from the object you were. I think that's what increases the FPS, at least.
" Tessellation's been around since like 2000. The pop in for Sacrifice was kind of odd but holey shit you could have like hundreds of units way off in the distance and see them, it was crazy. So yeah, this has been around forever and its in most big games, so improving it is always nice especially for consoles that are clearly at their breaking point. Its certainly better than blurring everything more than 10 feet away. edit Wait wait. I thought the whole thing with tessellation is it automatically simplified wireframes (or made them more complex) based on how far away from the object you were. I think that's what increases the FPS, at least. "
Sounds like you're describing LOD. I suppose that's what tesselation does in reverse, increasing the detail and geometry of things up close.
Anti-aliasing smoothed out the image and removes the dots that pixels create. Not exactly as big a deal as 3D gaming. In fact, most PC games I play I don't use AA, because it just makes it less crisps and uses up more system resources that I could use for over 60 fps gaming. In fact, as resolution increases, the less AA you need.
@Atramentous You are what's wrong with PC gaming. You are the kind of people that promotes developers using more complex graphics technology when it's not needed, and causing required PC specs to get higher and higher. That's killing PC gaming, you know, the lack of accessibility on playing PC games. Games should be able to be played on most computers out there, not just top of the line gaming PC's. "
Oh shut up you ridiculous little ponce. Its a myth that you need top level hardware to play PC games. If you cant run just about any game thats out there for pc these days then your pc is a dinosaur and you should upgrade. A $300 Dell off the shelf will run even the most demanding pc games on fair settings and that without even having a gfx card.
Im whats wrong with pc gaming? I just bought a new pc for no more then $500 and its the first new pc I have had in 7 years.
Anti-aliasing smoothed out the image and removes the dots that pixels create. Not exactly as big a deal as 3D gaming. In fact, most PC games I play I don't use AA, because it just makes it less crisps and uses up more system resources that I could use for over 60 fps gaming. In fact, as resolution increases, the less AA you need.
@Atramentous You are what's wrong with PC gaming. You are the kind of people that promotes developers using more complex graphics technology when it's not needed, and causing required PC specs to get higher and higher. That's killing PC gaming, you know, the lack of accessibility on playing PC games. Games should be able to be played on most computers out there, not just top of the line gaming PC's. "
Oh shut up you ridiculous little ponce. Its a myth that you need top level hardware to play PC games. If you cant run just about any game thats out there for pc these days then your pc is a dinosaur and you should upgrade. A $300 Dell off the shelf will run even the most demanding pc games on fair settings and that without even having a gfx card. Im whats wrong with pc gaming? I just bought a new pc for no more then $500 and its the first new pc I have had in 7 years. "
I play games at 1920x1200 res, and I still find it necessary to put AA on because it makes a noticeable difference. Its not my fault if your PC cant handle it with AA on, but dont use that as a way to insult it. AA improves imagine quality greatly in my experience, and I can easily have a game like TF2 due to console customized Ultra+ quality graphics and AA look better than every single console game that has ever been released because of it. A good amount of games on console since the last few years as well, some of them use AA and its obvious when you compare them to ones that dont have it as well.
Anti-aliasing smoothed out the image and removes the dots that pixels create. Not exactly as big a deal as 3D gaming. In fact, most PC games I play I don't use AA, because it just makes it less crisps and uses up more system resources that I could use for over 60 fps gaming. In fact, as resolution increases, the less AA you need.
@Atramentous You are what's wrong with PC gaming. You are the kind of people that promotes developers using more complex graphics technology when it's not needed, and causing required PC specs to get higher and higher. That's killing PC gaming, you know, the lack of accessibility on playing PC games. Games should be able to be played on most computers out there, not just top of the line gaming PC's. "
Oh shut up you ridiculous little ponce. Its a myth that you need top level hardware to play PC games. If you cant run just about any game thats out there for pc these days then your pc is a dinosaur and you should upgrade. A $300 Dell off the shelf will run even the most demanding pc games on fair settings and that without even having a gfx card. Im whats wrong with pc gaming? I just bought a new pc for no more then $500 and its the first new pc I have had in 7 years. "
" @Atramentous: True that. My computer(laptop) somehow auto-sets my graphics to Very High on Crysis while the game barely runs on low. Bummer :( "
Wow, does it do that every time you launch the game or is it somehow permanently set to high and you cant change it?
@Willy105 said:
" @Atramentous said:
Thats a laptop, not a PC. Theres a huge difference. Your a fool to yourself for trying to game on a laptop in the first place. "
And why can't I play a game on a laptop? It's not illegal. "
You can play all the games you want on a laptop but you shouldn't be expecting it to run them well. You have to spend a fortune to get a laptop that will play games well, unlike a pc that will do just fine. Hell, allot of games still say that they aren't supported for use on laptops(in other words, they may or may not work and either way they wont offer support).
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