@triviaman09: The definition of a win state is also incredibly vague, and is different things to different people. Do MMORPGs really have a win state? You could say that leveling up or maybe completing a dungeon is a win state, but you never really "win" at an MMO. It just keeps on going. You never reach an end. Same goes for "old School" Minecraft, is that a game or not?
I agree that using "win states" to judge what isn't and isn't a game is useless. And yeah, I think the whole discussion really has no real merit: It's mostly a way to dismiss certain games from the discussion.
In MMORPGs you win or lose individual battles. Also, is old school minecraft a game? You can die in it. You can defeat or be defeated by monsters. It has game-y elements.
Do you disagree with the video I posted? That reflects my view on the subject pretty well.
I'm watching it. BTW, "baldness" is as hard to define as "game-iness", at some point you're obviously bald and at some point you're obviously not bald (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuum_fallacy). Just because there is a murky middle doesn't mean there is no clear definition. If "Gone Home" was obviously a game or not a game to me, I wouldn't post this poll.