MuttersomeTaxicab

I'd say a single neonazi, coupled with everything they've shown about the game so far makes its toxicity a very real likelihood. But whatever, nobody's saying they can't make the game (some might be saying they probably shouldn't, but that's neither here nor there) - the question is whether Valve opts to sell it, which is ultimately their call to make.

@conmulligan: I was going to say. I don't think that's really "circumstantial" evidence.

Okay, so Valve decided to add it back to Steam greenlight. My point had more to do with the fact that GG was using it as yet another reason in a long line of tiresome reasons to lose their goddamn minds about the industry. (To say nothing of the frequent calls to add Anita Sarkeesian, Zoe Quinn, and Brianna Wu to Hatred so people could slaughter them.) As for my original point, it still stands: Valve still retains the final call on whether to fully greenlight Hatred, and NeoGAF retains the right to say, "nah, moderating this discussion isn't worth the fucking effort."

No, I'm not advocating that people shelter themselves from ideas or opinions they dislike. I'm saying that NeoGAF doesn't owe you shit. If they don't want to deal with moderating the discussion, and it's clear enough that it's a discussion that warrants moderation, then they're free to do that. You're welcome to go to literally THOUSANDS OF OTHER PLACES to have that discussion or air your grievances. You're free to say what you want, but people don't owe you attention, is what I'm saying. NeoGAF saying they won't host that discussion isn't censorship. It's kindly telling you to take that shit outside.

And yes, there's something to be said for talking to people who hold different viewpoints, but if there is literally no common ground to be found, how is that discussion going to be productive?

Makes sense to me. Not all discussion is particularly productive or healthy. GamerGate is already using Valve's decision to not sell Hatred as another excuse in a long line of excuses to shriek their utter lack of comprehension of basic things like censorship and how industries work into the void and to anyone who'll listen. People are running hot on this game, is what I'm saying, and from what I've seen it's not particularly justified. Valve doesn't owe the makers of Hatred a platform to sell their game, and NeoGAF doesn't owe their users a forum to flip the fuck out over every videogame-related topic.

I dunno about cars. I played a lot of GodWars/GodWars variants back in the day. I've been seriously considering starting a subscription to Gemstone IV, too.

@rorie: Hey Rorie, I know you're doing your best with all this and you're mostly flying solo, but all of the "learning experience" stuff has come from some tweets you've made. Mostly talking provisionally about whatever official response is forthcoming - calling something a learning experience is a rhetorical turn that shifts a concrete problem into something ephemeral, something that doesn't necessarily need a firm course of action since learning, by definition, is an end unto itself. Believe me, I've watched this conversation pretty closely. I'm not just out there to poke giant bomb in the eye.

Went on a bit of a tirade on Twitter about this, so I might as well throw it here on the off chance that Rorie actually gets to it.

Seeing the rhetorical byline of "today has been a learning experience for Giant Bomb" is fucking infuriating.

Honestly, I'd respect the guys far more if they came out and said, "yeah, we knew this wasn't going to be popular" and opened discussion.

But when they paint this as a hat-in-hand baww guys we didn't know you'd be mad by acting like this is not A Thing, it's an insult.

Unless the crew is utterly divorced from reality, they had to have expected a certain amount of ire re: hiring decisions.

Because handwaving this away as an ephemeral "learning experience" - doesn't acknowledge accountability.

And in doing so, it means that Giant Bomb doesn't need to actually take steps to make this shit right.

Transgressor's Staff isn't too bad if you're going hex/spell early on, but that's kind of it?

So casually racist.

On the upside, the demo for both the 3DS and Vita versions of Conception II is coming out today, so if you've got both, you can kinda make that call.