TheCowman

"Tell me how my comparison is wrong."

Okay. You're comparison is wrong. It's a broad sweeping statement that ignores any sort of context or nuance to either situation. It's like people saying "video games cause violence" or "TV rots your brain". There might be things that support your argument, but actually go into the important details and the statement quickly breaks down.

Heck, just to use your own deaf person analogy; the synthesis wouldn't suddenly make them able to hear. Joker was still hobbling about, so it doesn't change anything major automatically. Presumably stuff like that could be done, but it would be something done later on using the new traits gained by the synthetic elements added.

Deaf people could STILL refuse to have anything about them changed. Nobody would have to change at all. The potential for those changes was added, but it's still up to the individual whether or not they make use of it.

So yeah, I think the "biological rape" comparison is a straw man argument that has no bearing when you get into the actual details of what you're comparing.

"When the Catalyst says it's solution will no longer work, it's not admitting that it's reasoning for the Reaper solution was wrong. It's not saying that the murders it committed was wrong. It is simply stating that the solution will no longer work because Shepard has beaten the odds, and more options have opened up."

And again; it's a frickin' toaster oven. It has no understanding of right and wrong or guilt. That's kinda the whole point. Synthetics, like the Catalyst, can't understand why things like the Reapers are wrong. To them, saving the combined knowledge of the races would be perfectly acceptable since information is pretty much all they are.

To something that operates on that kind of logic, saying their solution no longer works is the equivalent to owning up to a mistake. Of course it doesn't feel guilty, because that's a human emotion and it's not human.

"We don't see anything happen to the Catalyst in the Destroy ending. All we see is it disappear like the end of a transmission."

Well, it IS stated that the Destroy option would kill all synthetics including itself and the Reapers. So, yeah, you know it's dead.

But then, maybe you wanted decapitations and gallons of blood or the synthetic equivalent. If so, I recommend Mortal Kombat. It's quite graphic in it's depiction of violence, so maybe that will satisfy you. The Shepard I played was more interested in preserving the universe than cathartic physical vengeance on some holographic adding machine, but then I'm funny that way.

"What does this have to do with anything I was saying?"

Oh nothing. Just a funny observation I've had while reading Mass Effect threads. Well, apart from it being what your response was all about anyway. Or were you NOT telling me my choice was wrong by calling it "biological rape"?

@Lord_Punch:

"Synthesis is basically stating that it would be perfectly okay to force all deaf people to get cochlear implants, because it "improves" them and makes them "better." Sorry. but Synthesis is essentially biological rape."

Oh good. I'm glad we got to the real classy comparisons right away. Bring up Hitler next and we can bury the topic completely. Hyperbole sure is fun, ain't it?

I always love how despite the point of the game being that all choices are valid, people still go out of their way to convince you that your choice was the "wrong" one. But then, this IS the internet; where everyone's opinion is wrong except for your own, so I'm not sure why I'm surprised.

"What it did was murder, and murder is always wrong. The Catalyst needed to be held accountable."

Yeah, I think I actually DID say that it was wrong. Heck, the Catalyst itself said that it was wrong when it admitted that it's solution no longer worked. Nobody's saying it wasn't wrong. If you're so keen to exact physical punishment on it, then choose the Destroy ending.

That's the point of the different endings. For everyone to choose one that matches their own beliefs, opinions, and prejudices. None of them are right or wrong. I always preferred the Synthesis ending (though the extended cut DLC made Control a tie), but I'd never tell anyone that Synthesis is the "right" ending. All the endings have their pros and cons.

Strange that people always get on games with multiple endings about not having clear "right" and "wrong" choices. But then when they get that, all they do is argue about why THEIR choice was the correct one.

What, was the synthesis wave confined to only space-faring races?

I was under the impression that it affected everything within reach of the Mass Relays. Also, why wouldn't future synthetics be given the understanding of organics? As stated before, it was already done with the Geth if you managed the peaceful solution; with the added technical knowledge of all the previous races, it seems it would just be that much easier to do.

Shepard's energy was needed for a universal synthesis; simply building it into individual synthetics doesn't seem quite as difficult. The Reaper code was enough to do it for the Geth, and now they have actual Reapers to help out.

So yeah, not seeing the problem here.

@EXTomar said:

Flipping it around, If Mass Effect 3 followed Gears 3 ending, the beam would have hit all of the Reapers in the galaxy causing them to fall apart and the alliance wins. Shepard wanders down by what is left of a beach and laments there is nothing left but (insert favorite crew member here) reminds Shepard that all of it was worth it because the galaxy has a future.

Which sounds like the sensible ending?

Well, that certainly sounds like the more boring ending. I probably would've still been satisfied, but man, how many times have we seen THAT kinda ending before.

I've finally realized that I seem to be in the severe minority when it comes to ME3. I liked the original endings and I loved the extended ones. Synthesis was also my number one choice, though the extended cut DLC has made Control a close contender.

People who keep shouting about "forcing" something on the galaxy just aren't grasping what the Synthesis ending entailed. You aren't taking anything away from anyone. Asari are still asari, humans are still humans, geth are still geth, etc.

What is changed is that organics gain the strengths of synthetics while synthetics gain the ability to understand organics. Nothing is taken away, only added to. Heck, if you manage to create peace between the Geth and Quarians, you've almost done half of the synthesis ending already, seeing how the Reaper code gave the Geth the ability to think more like organics.

I DO wish they'd called the Citadel AI something other than Starchild though, since that DOES sound pretty stupid and, I think, led to people feeling it was out of place with the rest of the series. However, I don't think you can really turn him into a mustache twirling villain, as many seem to want to.

After all, he's a machine built to serve a purpose. It's like getting mad at your toaster for browning your bread. That was sorta the point of the whole organics vs synthetics thing. Shepard and the others kept giving human characteristics to the Reapers. To the Citadel AI, it was nothing more heinous than deleting excess data files and keeping a back up on a flash drive.

Was it wrong?

Of course it was. It said as much; "my solution will no longer work". That's why I like the Synthesis ending, because it solves this problem. An AI with the ability to understand organics would never have come up with a solution like the Reapers because it would know it was wrong. Something an AI operating purely on logic could not understand.

Plus, how great is it that Shepard; the guy who's been going around the galaxy creating peace between so many races; would achieve the ultimate victory by making peace with the bane of organic life itself. It all just struck me as very poetic.

Loved the new endings. I liked the original ones too, but these provided much more closure. The plot holes they filled in were pretty much just what I'd assumed on my own, but it was nice to actually see it happen anyway.

I went with Synthesis originally and was happy they went into a little more detail about what that actually entailed. The Destroy ending was also much better, though I'll still probably never choose it; I couldn't bear to kill EDI. The Control option was actually the most changed for me. I never thought I'd go for the control ending, but the way they frame it in the extended cut is much more interesting. I might just use it for one of my other Shepards.

I've always disagreed that the ending is way off the tone of the rest of the game. It seemed pretty consistent to me. The Catalyst seemed no more magical than any other AI shown; just more powerful. I also liked that the new ending clarified that it was created as a go-between for humans and synthetics. It makes it appearing as the kid Shepard kept dreaming about much more logical. What better tool for a negotiator than the ability to appear as something the person it's talking to will sympathize with?

I was worried the huge negative reaction would scare Bioware into doing something drastic, but they came through in the end. They expanded on their endings without changing them to try and meet others expectations. Can't wait to see what's next for both Mass Effect and Bioware.

@Dewar said:

But who really want to browse the internet on a console? It's not that it's IE, it's that they're bothering at all.

Eh, I'd use it. Not terribly excited about it, but yeah... I'd probably use it every now and then. Sure, not worth making a big stink over, but at this point ya gotta figure 'hey, why not?'.

@Spitznock said:

@Lebensbaum: I'm not saying it's impossible not to die when shootdodging, I'm simply saying it's FAR less effective than in the previous games, so much so that I hardly used it; where as in the first two games, shootdodging was the fundamental gameplay hook.

Could be the reason they added new stuff like cover mechanics. A game can get popular based on it's "hook" but is unlikely to stay that way if they keep relying on it.

That being said, shootdodging DID feel less like a "Be Awesome" button than it did in 1 & 2. However, I kinda liked that. Even the touches with Max feeling more vulnerable and taking longer to get up after diving. It all reinforced just how much Max was in the crapper. He wasn't the angry, vengeful guy from the first two games. He's older, softer, and for the first half of the game, constantly drunk.

It took me a little while to adjust to the new feel of the game, but once I started to figure it out, I really started enjoying it. Shootdodging was no longer something I'd spam over and over just to make aiming easier (as I used it in the first two games). In MP3 I used it more as a way to work my way through a room.

Switching cover was a big way I utilized it. Need to switch my position? Pop out of cover and dive toward the next nearest cover, taking out any bad guys I could on the way. It made me use shootdodging as much more of a tactical move than I ever did, and I really found myself enjoying it.

I also thought the game fit really well with Max's character progression. The first game was all about revenge. Max wasn't thinking about anything beyond getting vengeance for his friend and family. The second game saw Max trying to figure out what to do now that he'd gotten his revenge. Mona seemed to offer him some kind of future, but then that was taken away as well.

Max Payne 3 shows us a Max who's given up. His revenge is over and he sees no future for himself. I felt that this is what MP3 was about. Max pulling himself out of his depression and finding a reason to live again. I thought his character arc in the game was great. He went from not caring about anything at the beginning to staying behind to finish the job even when he could've just left, simply because it was the right thing to do.

I was a fan of Max Payne from the very first game and have replayed both games countless times. I thought MP3 was an excellent addition to the series and loved every second of it.

From the reactions on the internet, I was expecting the ending to reach through the screen and pound my gentleman's area with a mallet.

Maybe it was the negative hype, but the ending never shocked me. It was more like, "Huh...... well, that's that."

Honestly, people complaining about the "palette swap" ending need to go back and watch the endings for the first two games. The ending cinematics for those were pretty much exactly the same too. The differences were in what happened on the way to the ending. Which is pretty much the same story with ME 3.

Both, really.

It's nice that we're getting some expansion on the ending. Personally, I was satisfied with what I was given, but it WOULD be nice to know what happened to my friends and the universe at large afterwards. Even if it's nothing more than a Fallout 3 style clip show.

Unfortunately, the internet community once again demonstrated it's complete lack of self-control. As I said, I liked the ending; but I could see why others might not. I've read several intelligent and helpful pieces about why someone was disappointed with the ending. My opinion is by no means the correct one, so their disappointment was just as valid as my satisfaction.

Sadly, intelligent discussion and articulate arguments were quickly in the minority; replaced with hateful threats, over-the-top reactions, and needless bashing. Soon I was regularly seeing ME3 described as "an abomination" or "worst game ever"; two things that are nowhere near true, even if you DIDN'T like the ending.

As EXTomar mentioned above, it IS nice that the gap between the game makers and the players is smaller and feedback is more easily given and received. However, I do think the reaction to ME3's ending went way too far and has soured what should have been one of the year's great games. We've had bad endings before, WAY worse than this one, and we've never torn a game down for it the way ME3 has been.

And the upshot of it all is that everyone is just sick of the whole ordeal. Both sides are tired of hearing about it and would rather just forget the whole thing. And that's the saddest part to me. Because a game that had SO MUCH special about it as Mass Effect 3 did, should not be forgotten just because of a lackluster ending.

Hopefully after all this has blown over people can eventually come back to the game with cooler heads and appreciate everything that was great about it.

I've posted my idea for a new Mass Effect game before, but what the hey; here it is again.

I'd rather not have a prequel since they usually don't interest me in the slightest. There are exceptions, but generally, going back in time in a story leaves me flat; unless it's something like KOTOR, where it's so long ago that it only has certain thematic connections to the source material.

For ME4, I'd rather see something set a bit past ME3. With what they learned while building the Crucible and whatever Reaper tech was scavenged, the arduous task of rebuilding the Mass Relay system has begun. It's slow work as many races are still rebuilding from the Reaper attack. The perfect atmosphere for an ambitious freelancer to make their fortune.

You start the game by making your character; choose from human, salarian, turian, krogan, or asari. Bonus if every race has a male/female option; not just humans. If they wanted to get really nuts, add a volus too. Your combat skills would be almost worthless, but you would make up for it with your negotiation skills, letting you hire better mercenaries at cheaper prices for squad members/bodyguards.

Basically, I'm envisioning a Privateer-like game where you wander the galaxy, amassing fame and wealth however you see fit. Will you be an honest merchant, a roguish smuggler, or a ruthless drug dealer/slave trader? Hire mercenaries for your crew or form partnerships with other freelancers. Upgrade your ship or buy a bigger and better one.

I think a set up like this could allow for a ton of customization and immersion in the game's universe. Combat itself would often be as prevalent as you decide, as the game would allow you to talk your way out of fights or turn conversations into shoot-outs.

It would make exploration much more in tune with the games story than it often was in the first three games and would be a reasonably new direction to take the series so it doesn't stagnate into yet another military shooter. Your saved games could dictate which ME crew members could make cameo appearances. Imagine negotiating with Wrex to secure a major Tunchunka trading route or striking up a partnership with Aria.

Incorporating the endings could be a bit problematic, depending on how all that ends up. Personally, I'd love to see a Mass Effect game based on the "green" ending. It would provide interesting character moments and introduce new abilities to specialize in. But all that will have to wait till we see how the ending crap all shakes out.