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Kunakai

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Kunakai

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@kunakai: My memory is that Fortnite was in early access selling founders packs (so still building a base of players who expected the game to be expanded and iterated on) when it made the pivot. It wasn't a game that had a lot of people try and abandon it, it was a game still on the build. People are understandably a lot more forgiving of early access projects because they know the game isn't finished. So it's not comparable. The game promised it would get better and build out more and then it did. It didn't sell a finished version that flopped.

Destiny reviewed not great but had a lot people who thought the shooting was fantastic and were into it. The playerbase never dwindled like it did for Anthem, and again the game was "fixed" pretty early. It didn't take 2 years. If this conversation were taking place in early 2020 I might have a different view of things. Destiny also had first mover's advantage (it was the first major game structured like this) AND gameplay that people loved even if they had issues with stuff like the loot and story.

The issue isn't that "Gamers" (which are the target audience for something like Anthem, which is a deep and complicated action game not some Candy Crush thing that moms will love, not that there's anything wrong with the latter) need to be conscious of games, it's that you need to draw attention to the game to get people to sink money into it. Launch is the time that happens generally. If you build a community they can draw new people in, but nobody has ever rebuilt a community from scratch except arguably FF XIV, which is a totally different thing for a bunch of reasons AND has a built in monetization angle in subscription fees.

You would have to essentially relaunch Anthem as a brand new game, except with a lot of baggage AND the added issue that a lot of people already own it AND it's in the EA vault so everyone with EA Play OR Gamepass already has a free version.

So to answer your question yes I would try it...because I am a Gamepass subscriber. If it were still $60 I probably would not because I'm not looking to spend $60 on gen 8 games anymore, and especially not 2 year old gen 8 games.

Being on Gamepass and EA Play does make it easier to rebuild a playerbase, for sure, but where do you go from there? Start launching paid expansions 3 years after the game launch? Aggressive microtransactions that would sabotage the playerbase you just rebuilt?

It's just too late for any of this stuff.

And most importantly and something you haven't dealt with is the fact that the people who were most interested in Anthem have already tried and abandoned it and are going to be much harder to bring back because they've already seen the content and been burned once. You say that you don't need "Gamers" to be aware of the game for it to succeed, but the people who are most likely to be into it were already exposed and gave it a shot. If you made the game much better you might bring some portion of them back to try it again 3 years after launch, but they already own their copies so that's not actually new sales.

It's really hard to relaunch a product once it has flopped in any business. Even harder years after the fact. In games it seems to be nearly impossible.

"So it's not comparable" - "Granted, a different case with different circumstances but aren't they all?"

"something you haven't dealt with is the fact that the people who were most interested in Anthem have already tried and abandoned it" - "Most people who play games likely haven't tried Anthem"

"gameplay that people loved even if they had issues with stuff like the loot and story." - "not comparable"?

"different thing for a bunch of reasons" - I'd already conceeded that point.

"where do you go from there? Start launching paid expansions 3 years after the game launch? Aggressive microtransactions that would sabotage the playerbase you just rebuilt?" - Isn't your entire argument based on the belief that they shouldn't do what's in the customers interests because it's not viable "from a commercial standpoint"? There's a sensible middle ground but you don't seem to want to meet there.

"it was the first major game structured like this" - Not really. Boarderlands was (depending on what you mean by structured like this, I'd actually argue the only real mechanical difference between destiny and Halo is the loot part). Destiny also incorperates "Aggressive microtransactions". Arguably.

"nobody has ever rebuilt a community from scratch" - APB would be one example. You make the statement as though there have been many attempts when it doesn't seem evident though.


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Kunakai

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#2  Edited By Kunakai

@bigsocrates said:

@kunakai: It would almost certainly be easier to make the game better from a development standpoint, but from a commercial standpoint how do you bring people back and get them to spend more, or bring new people in?

The games you mentioned were in different situations. Fortnite hadn't even launched to my memory when they created the Battle Royale mode and it took off like a rocket. It was still in beta.

Destiny reviewed well and had a strong core playerbase that they quickly solidified through expansions that people really enjoyed...and they ended up cutting bait and making a sequel anyway.

In neither case were they trying to revive a dead game that people had already moved on from that had a toxic reputation.

Fortnite launched at a cost prior to implementing BR as a F2P element. The game people refer to as Fortnite isn't what Fortnite was planned to be. Destiny didn't review well. In so far as I remember GS gave it 6/10 (same as Anthem) and most in games media had a pretty negative perception. Granted, a different case with different circumstances but aren't they all?

Most people who play games likely haven't tried Anthem, it's a large market and most people don't touch most games, AAA or otherwise. The belief that Gamers(TM) need to be conscious of a games existence or have a positive perception of something in order for success is simply a flawed perception of the industry/market.

A question in response to your question about attracting attention: If you were to watch a GB QL of a re-released Anthem, and it looked better, wouldn't you feel an urge to look further into it?

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Kunakai

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It would take a lot to convince me starting from scratch would save time/money over improving what they already have.

Destiny, Fortnite and others became what they are precisely because developers were open to making dramatic changes post launch. I'm not sure I'd bet against Anthem making such a comeback.

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Kunakai

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My favourite game of all time is KSP. That said, I still have many criticisms in regards to what could have been done better: procedural parts/scalable parts, engine variants, graphic fidelity, a better progression system, integrated tutorial missions, objectives which work together in order to make a cohesive goal. I could go on and on and on and on.

"Critics will always say nothing is perfect. But that's a defeatist attitude. Ha. Point is, give me something that no critic could in good faith say isn't good."

Defeatist? Good and perfect aren't synonymous. As others have said, perfect is an ideal, not a reality. Think of any media you've ever consumed and then think about how it might have been even better. Such problems usually stem from lacking infinite funds/time, inability to perfectly prioritise among other issues.

All of that said I'd be very interested in making a skyrim/fallout style sim RPG comparible to the Outer Worlds but with more emphasis on dynamics and less so on story (the ability to pilot and fly my ship along with destructability and boarding mechanics). Graphics certainly wouldn't be a priority in any case (graphics might sell a game but they rarely make a game worth playing in my experience).

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Kunakai

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Beyond the mentioned AC/Middle Earth games I'm not sure there's much out there that fits your desire for AC style assassination combat. But in so far as methocally killing camps of people goes I'd recommend:

Far Cry 3 onwards
Metal Gear Solid V/TPP
The rebooted Tomb Raider trilogy (More linear than most of these suggestions with more puzzles but the stealth assassination aspects are similar to AC)
Horizon Zero Dawn

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Kunakai

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@shades846: Surely capturing in HDR would require a seperate recording?

I don't know a lot about the subject but would expect the image captured for HDR to be catered to a HDR screen, thus not useable on a standard monitor, meaning you'd need to record twice (since it's basically an on/off switch in a game engine)?

I might be betraying my own ignorance.

(Sorry if I'm making little or no sense. Been up for 24 hours and starting to feel it)

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Kunakai

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@elisdee1: "these guys weee not out to make a profit yay recoup any loses on their part"

"The guy that sold me his PS5 had his own system brick on him ? He can’t get another till next year. I felt bad for him I lent him my spare PS4 to play until his PS5 comes in, not sure if it’s karma"

I don't get it. You say you paid scalpers. Then you say you didn't pay scalpers and the people you bought from weren't out to make a profit. Then you imply one of the people who apparently did/didn't scalp is receiving karma for their not scalping?

I don't understand any of what's happening with this thread. Why in the nine hells anyone would want to announce they'd bought off scalpers or why anyone would feel compelled to announce the scalpers weren't scalpers but people you chose to pay an extra fee to.

Some advice for the future: Next time you do something which seems socially unacceptible, wait until after the chaos before confessing such to the internet.

OR

Don't paint the people who've been generous to you as the centre of the internets collective disdain.

Go with whichever is applicable.

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Kunakai

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@haz_kaj: "why should they be forced to appreciate garbage?" - Why should they be forced to buy a new console?

"Last year we had incredible games like control that ran like hot trash on these consoles." - So you're saying it would have been preferrable to exclude anyone who didn't have a decent PC at the time? Seems a bad argument.

"Theres no recent AAA game on pc that supports mid tier GFX cards from 2013 as even a minimum requirement" - RDR2? (Literally the first game I checked with a somewhat recent release date).

"My point is at some point we have to stop and say....this shit isn't worth it. Don't give people a bad experience." - This argument is very subjective. Given the fact that the new consoles have just dropped I can't help but feel many AC fans (who aren't generally the type to make much fuss about performance) would strongly disagree with your perception.

"Its like when switch owners port beg for AAA games that simply shouldn't be ported. Ironically control is a stream only game." - Surely this isn't a problem for those who have access to higher end hardware? The switch version of TW3 doesn't have bad reviews despite your opinion of their experience.

"I don't want to imagine what Cyberpunk runs like on base xbox one and s." - Why is this even a concern for you? You can always choose not to play on such hardware?

While I agree there will come a point at which older hardware should be phased out I wouldn't agree that developers should do so within weeks/months of the release of new hardware (I'd actually make an argument for years).


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Kunakai

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#9  Edited By Kunakai

More GOTY?

I'm starting to hope for less to be honest. The arbitrary nature of the awards and passioned discussions which boarder or outright turn into arguments between the team makes me feel they cause more harm than good.

The only time I've ever seen Vinny mad is while defending Dan during the discussions regarding RDR2. It was uncomfortable. The same could be said for many other aspects of such discussions. Listening to arbitrary denouncements of games winning due to portrayals of certain characters while the fact that you're playing a mass murderer in other games doesn't sit well with me either.

Then there's the marketing aspect. Which is what this all comes down to in the eyes of developers/publishers. Who gets to print the tag on the back of their box?

While I'd be happy to see GB cover more VR games I'm not so sure I'd ever want to see such in the form of a GOTY discussion.

Further: I honestly don't feel there are all that many compelling VR games out there when compared to flat screen experiences.

"More and more, I wonder if GB isn't getting a bit stuck in their ways, somewhat unwilling to adopt the new medium." - Surely you don't ask the same question in regards to mobile games? (Which are orders of magnitude more mainstream than VR currently is).