Nintendo Patents Self-Playing Games, Developers React

When I was a kid, my friend David, who pretty much sucked at games, would always ask me to come over and play through his shiny new copy of Metroid or whatever other game from start to finish, while he watched. He seemed to get some vicarious enjoyment out of it. I should have patented the service.

"HandsomeDead said:

"MackGyver said:

"In summary, for all of us serious gamers out there, this "Kind Code" sucks."

In summary, this sucks for everyone. The casual gamers that don't exist, the ones that are supposedly frightened by the concept of a game where you have to press buttons and lose, if they play this, it's not going to lead them onto bigger and better things. It's going to make the people who actually make the games see there's money to be made here and ruin the kind of games I enjoy by putting this kind of stuff in when they could be spending that time, money and effort making something good."

You make some good points, but I read on some other boards, that it could increase creativity. In essence, you're creating a game not dumbed down, but one that allows the feature for the ones that want it. The game could be very complex/hard with puzzles (Zelda), thus creating an in-game diffuculty setting."

Non-interactive video games? I wonder if Nintendo has heard about this thing called "movies".

thats it,  i had enough Nintendo
where is the NES, SNES era :'(

Primarily, this patent is very complex. There are MANY intricate design decisions in there, such as a required play time before the "approach movie" can be viewed, so this hint system will really only be applicable to those times in a game where you're thinking "ugh, i'm just about done with this crap". There were also items that implied the chapter selection would be restrictive as well, but rest assured that there is still a traditional experience at the core of the game, so there is absolutely no reason for people to worry about being alienated by Nintendo again.

I disagree with Blow's view on this. His point is valid and true, it does devalue a game if you're not interacting with it. However, not everyone is capable of interacting with games at the extent to which we are, so what value does this interaction have to them? A lot of the audience will get so much more out of this than they would a traditional format, and if they weren't going to play it in that way in the first place, they are missing out on absolutely nothing. Blow's comments imply that they are missing out, whereas there is no less of an experience there than traditional structuring would have provided them in.

You simply can't say that a game is flawed just because it doesn't appeal to everyone, but why shouldn't everyone be able to enjoy the experience in a way that suits them? The approach is aiming to tell the expanded audience that yes, you CAN interact with this kind of game. Ultimately they will learn how the game works, and how they can overcome problems they might have. After this experience they can perhaps play bits of the story here and there when they feel like it, and before long they might be able to play the entire game through by themselves. I believe this is what Nintendo is aiming for, giving the expanded audience a way of interacting with more complex and rewarding games, but letting them do it at their own pace. With this innovation they are doing this without alienating the rest of us, if nothing else this is a sign Nintendo are still looking for change, even when they're sitting pretty.

My suggestion for this type of technology is for the developer to do a play through that someone can "cut to" whenever they chose. Some games are too time consuming for some people, but the very same people may want to experience the game as a type of interactive movie. There are many games I would like to "experience" but do not have the time or energy to get into and play. This type of thing could be an interesting alternative. Granted, it is a bit of a slippery slope. Where would this type of functionality lead developers. The Wii is already pretty damn horrible in my opinion (overall, a handful of games are okay), and this auto-play thing could lead to even more "Casual" crap.

stupid idea.

Has Nintendo been watching "Welcome to the NHK"? In one episode the main character, Satou Tatsuhiro,  tries out a game developing class and brainstorms the idea of letting games play themselves. Everyone laughs at him for his idea and he has a panic attack(he is a hermit and thinks everything is a conspiracy). Great anime, now go watch it!!

The second part of the patent makes sense to me. Video games are the only form of media that don't allow random access. You can skip to any part of a movie and open up a book at any point but the majority of games don't allow you to skip around to the parts you enjoyed the most.

Jeez this sounds dumb. Maybe there is a chance this could be used for something else besides what it sounds like...

It's called a videoGAME for a reason. Good lord, nintendo.

This just means that  Shigeru Miyamoto is becomming more and more crazy as he gets older. He probably has his own room off on the side where he does nothing but draw random shit and ideas on the wall while smoke fills the room.

Brings back some memories of times I've played games like Advance Wars or Super Smash Bros. and set up some high level CPUs against each other to see them duke it out, this experience is more boring than I could ever explain. However while this idea seems horrendous on the surface it might be able to be used somewhat better than the initial idea suggests, after all this is something filed under the name of Miyamoto. For example what if you played through the game filling up some sort of meter whenever you defeat enemies and with the press of a button the game could temporarily take control of play until your bar drains down to nothing, however having said this, this is the only scenario in which I can actually see this being a remotely enjoyable feature. As far as this chapter skip system goes the game would have to have pretty much no linear storyline and even then would seem somewhat devoid of structure. But whether a good or bad thing for us the matter of the fact is with more and more casual gamers taking up video games making things easier and easier is only going to benefit companies selling on a console like the Wii.

Nintendo are abandoning "gamers" more and more as time goes on. Lets just think back to the good old days and bid them a fond farwell now.

Giant Bomb don't post a whole lot of Nintendo related stuff and I for one don't notice or really care.

 RIP.

Part of playing a game involves having challenges that frustrate you, and cause you to play it over and over until you finally beat it. This makes the game more fun, as you get the self satisfaction once you finally beat it. Clearly Nintendo doesn't understand this.

As long as you can still play the game normally without hints or unnecessary stuff like this, Nintendo can do whatever they want for casual players.

Reading the patent it seems like DRM stuff either by curving people's uses of downloaded save files, or offering a service for downloadable content ("buy part of game and watch the rest" their way of micro-transactions; pay to play.. your way?)

I do appreciate the idea (if your a good player how many times have you been asked to show someone through a difficult part of a game; and in the matter they wanted to solve it?) though I don’t think it is just a service to provide home brewed walkthrus at calculate-able points in game, where the player calls for a helpful hint and does not need to manually inquire, that the game would know the problem and show the best solution.

I'd be willing to bet big money that many of the hardcore gamers who are saying that this feature would "dumb-down" and "make a game too easy" are the same pricks who have no problem glitching online to their heart's content in Gear of War 2. You know, cheating to make the game easier. You can't have it both way folks.

totally undermines everything fun and rewarding about a game 

Nintendo needs to get back to having good games come out for it's system.

1.  Alone in the Dark already did the DVD chapter skip thing...kind of.

Well the fact that it can play games for you, is a little stupid.  However we do similar things with cheat codes.  If you take this program, and use it for say a really tough boss, it would be the same sort of thing as using say a cheat code for unlimited items or something like that, it gives you an edge.  Now according to the patent, it will have 3 modes, Mode Game, a small screen in the corner of hints, which that is perfect for people.  Mode digest: Which is the thing that pretty much plays the game for you, it looks up a save file online and then accesses the data and implements it from there.  Mode scene, is the dvd chapter select, its impossible to save but could be sort of a different thing like the old password system, but with save cards now a days, not needed..  So I think the mode where it gives you hints is the only thing really needed.  But keep in mind, the standard protocol is if you think of something no one else has, create a patent so no one steals it, even if you don't plan on doing anything with it.  This is basically a what if scenario.

1. Jonathan Blow's comment is a little funny, considering how many gamers (especially press) have complained about difficulty, or unclear puzzles, in Braid. Let's also thank Mr. Blow for DEFINING VIDEOGAMES. That's it, guys, it's over. A videogame is ONLY a videogame when you're playing it. Anyone who wants to innovate in that regard can just go home! Mr. Blow has solved everything for us. Thanks, Mr. Blow. :)

"1. Jonathan Blow's comment is a little funny, considering how many gamers (especially press) have complained about difficulty, or unclear puzzles, in Braid. Let's also thank Mr. Blow for DEFINING VIDEOGAMES. That's it, guys, it's over. A videogame is ONLY a videogame when you're playing it. Anyone who wants to innovate in that regard can just go home! Mr. Blow has solved everything for us. Thanks, Mr. Blow. :)"

"2. Ben Mattes' Prince of Persia is remarkably linear; unlike the Elika system that brings you back to the same place over and over again, Kind Code moves you FORWARD. In this case, difficulty levels or not, gamers who can't complete a certain portion will give up before they keep going. Thus, Kind Code."

"3. Nowhere in the patent does it say that Nintendo is going to try to enforce this over all of gaming; why is EVERYONE acting like that's what they said? Can developers not read? Did Kotaku brainwash everyone? IT'S A PATENT. Miyamoto had an idea, an idea that might be used in 1 game, 2 games, 3 games, 100 games, whatever. At the end of the day, it won't appear in every game. Likely, it will appear in LINEAR GAMES where it will actually WORK, so developers like Bethesda (and again, Mattes) don't need to derride it for being pointless when it comes to "sand-box" games. IT'S NOT MEANT FOR SAND-BOX GAMES. It's like saying that using the guitar from Rock Band for Metal Gear is impractical because it doesn't have dual analogue sticks. THAT'S NOT WHAT IT'S FOR.

MAN. For serious. 

"

It's seems kind of backward for a game to feature "kind code".  Then again when I was a kid we had the game genie and game shark so I guess this is kind of like corporate sponsored game breaking.  Whatever.  To each their own.  I won't be using any "kind code" when I play.  It would take the fun out of my favorite medium if a game played itself.

This is a joke right? I'm  waiting for Ashton Kutcher to pop out yelling "You just got Punk'd."

I do like this idea for little kids and families, which is nintendo's main source of money. But I disagree with previous comments, the Wii sucks. The only fun game that I have played is the sports game that comes with it.

I don't understand why the man who has really helped make video games what they are today seems to want to just bring it all down.

Wow, I seemed to have stepped into some vortex where life is mimicking cheesy sci-fi films. Welcome to our future! Here, our video games play themselves! What marvelous and magical technology exists in the future....

The only reason I buy video games, is to play them. Simple as. Not to press fast forward, skip or just get by the really darn hard bits. Will they have to bring out new Wii remotes with a special little skip button on it? So now we don't have even have to bother killing Ganondorf, we can just fast forward past and hug Zelda and Medina, does that sound like a challenge?

If I even ignore the already well-discussed point of not actually playing a video game, there is still a major flaw in this game design. The sense of achievement you get after completing a particularly tough section, is a huge part of video gaming. Some people might ask "What about the little children?They want to play but just can't because the mean old games are too hard?" - TOUGH! They have to suck it up. We all did, simple as. That's like buying a novel and just skipping straight to the end because you hate reading, it's like watching Lord Of The Rings and skipping all of it just to watch all the little hobbits jumping around on Frodo's bed, looking like they're starring in some softcore porn. It's absolutely INSANE.

This is the stupidest idea I have EVER heard, period. They day this happens, is the day my Wii goes straight out my window at high speed.

I may be in the minority here, but I don't think this is such a big deal.  Every now and then, some of us encounter a part in a game we can't seem to get past.  Perhaps we ask a friend to get us over that hump or we find a cheat to blow past it or we find a walk-through/youtube video detailing the correct path.  All this seems to be doing is bypassing the routes we may have taken in the past. 

If hardcore gamers are worried that the medium is getting dumbed down to appeal to the "casual gamer", maybe this is a way to maintain accessibility to both groups.  Games could be developed to challenge the hardcore players, while the wimp-button could help the mainstream set over the tricky parts without interrupting the flow for either.

Allow me to speculate;

Could this not be a different gaming mechanic rather then a concrete way to "skip" content; allowing players to hop back and forth in "DVD chapter"-like segments, and complete different tasks? Furthermore, these systems, implemented properly could give way to some odd "mirror matches", and take away the tedious nature of games like Mirror's Edge (when the game reverts to trial and error jumping), and allow you to have a sort of reverse (but forwards) Prince of Persia deal going on.

I wouldn't just start shoving things in Miyamoto's face yet; give the genius a chance.

I don't think this is so bad, just don't use it if you don't want to.  I've stopped playing games because they got ridiculously hard and frustrating.  I was disappointed then from missing the rest of the story.  I think a feature like this could be helpful, as long as it isn't intrusive.

well somewhere i could see this applied is in MMOs and RPGs. Need to grind? let the game play itself. But then again, it defies the whole concept of working for where you get...

Wait... I'm confused... Doesn't Left 4 Dead already do that? You hit "take a break" and the computer plays for you... Anyway, it's not like Nintendo is grasping at straws any more. They have a ton of money from Wii... Maybe it's not a patent for a game playing itself as much as.... A new Rob the Robot that can play the Wii with you!!!! That would be awesome... Stupid Awesome!!!! Probably not, but still!!!!

I already have the ability to watch movies, TV, and internet video.  I have many options for non-interactive entertainment.

Looks like Nintendo proving, once again, that gamers are not their market anymore.

Hey wait, I'm pretty sure a "DVD menu" level-select option (with "stock" equipment) has been done in a number of games already. Doesn't that constitute prior art?

In any case, I wouldn't be too quick to knock this:

1. The patent explicitly states that it's meant for games where "a core story or scenario is previously set, and the game is played in accordance with the story or the scenario in general". In other words, it's mainly directed at very linear games. All you Fallout and GTA fans can relaxen und watchen das blinkenlights.

2. Some people have brought up the issue of designers getting shafted because stuff they work on never gets played. I think Miyamoto is trying to address that very issue here. Intuitively, a designer or developer would tend to want to reserve the best ideas for the final boss. Hands up, all of you who've put down a game halfway and never reached the final boss. Personally I'd rather have the player watch a video of it than have them not reach it at all.

3. On the other hand, a lot of games are really about applying ingenuity - a leap of logic - rather than executing a pre-defined plan. For those games, the video would act as a pretty nasty sort of spoiler. I can see why Blow dislikes this - if you did it for Braid, for instance, the entire point of the game would be lost.

4. Putting on my designer hat, if I had to implement this in a game, I'd introduce some caveats:

- The video mode is initially only available on "Easy" difficulty. Until you complete the game on Easy WITHOUT using video, you can't access the video mode on "Normal". And so on.
- You don't get Achievements or unlockables when playing from video mode. Additionally, some secrets may be left out - including the best equipment, or hidden scenes which might enhance your understanding of the story or characters. (Of course, you can still understand the main plot when playing from video mode - that's the point).

5. Putting on my bastard designer hat...

- Completing the game in normal mode (without using video mode) gives you a different, better ending, along with a New Game + function. You can't access this ending from video mode unless you have already completed the game in normal mode.
- Some fairly valuable achievement cannot be earned if you use video mode AT ALL before completing the game normally.
- Either the video mode is labelled with some insulting name, or you get an insulting 1-point achievement ("Wuss" or something) for using it before completing the game. For completists, there is a replacement achievement ("Nostalgia") which you get if you complete the game normally and then start the video mode for the first time.

Finally...

Who's to say that Miyamoto didn't patent this as a means of preventing anyone from using it? ;)



Edit: Oh, wait, they beat me to it. Scroll down to the bottom of the patent:

"Further, only when a player clears the game at least once, the use of the digest saved-data may be allowed. Thus, it is possible to prevent a player who has cleared the game by him/herself from reducing his/her interest in the game."

It looks like they actually thought about this. There's a description of the following rules:

1. you can't view the video for a certain part of the game until you have played the game for X hours. In other words, the game only offers the video option when the player is bashing their head against a wall.
2. alternatively, you can't view the video until you've completed the game.

There's a lot of other interesting stuff down there at the end.

I think everyone is overreacting. When Nintendo actually comes out and says what its planning to do with this technology, if anything, then the criticism can fly. But for now, we should all just wait and see.

" So basically they're making movies?  This is not good.  Now everyone that can press power and "play self" is going to claim gamer status. "

Most games don't need this because they already have auto regeneration, stupid AI, and shit like "dead eye". Nintendo games are occasionally genuinely challenging so they could use a feature like this. It would be redundant in most "real gamer" games because they don't require skill.