Something went wrong. Try again later

Giant Bomb News

230 Comments

What If Your Game Console Was Just A Video Stream?

What if your game machine was just a video display box hooked up to the Internet? OnLive thinks that very concept will change the way we play.

Pretty interesting story over on VentureBeat tonight that takes a look at OnLive, a new attempt at gaming via cloud computing via Steve Perlman, the guy who brought you WebTV. OnLive will be showing off its device at this year's Game Developers Conference.

The core concept of OnLive is really pretty simple when you break it down. What if you take all the computing power out of your gaming console and put it into a huge server farm somewhere else on the Internet? Then, instead of having your controller directly control your local game machine, your inputs are sent over the Internet to this magic cloud of computers, which sends back a low-latency video stream of the action. If it works, then suddenly things like CPUs and graphics hardware becomes kind of meaningless at the consumer level. In fact, so do retail versions of games, since you'd ostensibly be signing up for a service and/or buying your games directly from the OnLive device.

Speaking of which, here's a shot (or at least a mock-up) of said device, courtesy of VentureBeat:

No Caption Provided
Tiny, right? Apparently it's all made possible via proprietary compression algorithms that get latency down to around 80ms--which if you've played enough PC shooters in your time, you'll know that that's a pretty playable ping. But is it enough? Really, that's only one of the questions I'm left with after reading the article.

Whether you know it or not, a lot of games out there rely on pretty specific timing. While you could certainly play Street Fighter IV over the Internet, the game's top players are so busy counting each individual frame that even that 80ms is going to add up. And would games like Rock Band work properly with that sort of latency? It kind of reminds me of the time I tried to hook my Neo Geo up to my Sony AirBoard--that's a wireless TV that receives signal from a base station. If you weren't paying attention, the games were pretty much playable, but the moment you really started focusing on the action, it was an unsatisfying mess. Of course, for games with big online components, like first-person shooters and other action games, players are already used to some sort of latency, and games are built to predict your actions just enough to keep things running smoothly.

But the old QuakeWorld model of guessing where you're going to be next doesn't seem like something I'd want to apply to every single game ever made. I have to imagine that the games running on the service would have to be "optimized" to work properly. So, as you've probably already expected, color me skeptical. I can't help but think something is snake oil the minute people start talking about "the cloud." It screams "check it out, we shouted a bunch of buzzwords and someone gave us millions of dollars!" But most crazy, futuristic devices start out sounding too good to be true. So color me totally interested in seeing this thing first-hand. Apparently 16 games will be running from the GDC show floor later this week.
Jeff Gerstmann on Google+

230 Comments

Avatar image for duketogo
DukeTogo

1516

Forum Posts

626

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 7

Edited By DukeTogo

I seem to remember a Sony rep claiming that the PSP would be able to stream a game running on a PS3 to you eventually, even when you were elsewhere.  Sort of an extreme Remote Play.

I see this whole thing happening eventually, we're essentially already there with audio/video content, and have been with text for a while.  Not too far out we'll all have that box that does everything without having discs.  It's not next year, but probably in the next 10 years or so, if we're all still around that is.

Avatar image for jensonb
Jensonb

2092

Forum Posts

3407

Wiki Points

115

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 8

Edited By Jensonb

Sounds like a risky idea, has as much potential to be monumentally stupid as it does to be a game changing innovation.

Avatar image for br4dl3i9h
BR4DL3I9H

309

Forum Posts

26

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 13

User Lists: 0

Edited By BR4DL3I9H

I like the concept but like other people have said, what if the internet goes down? Plus i don't always want to be connected to the internet when playing a game.




Avatar image for nazar3ne
NAZAR3NE

67

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By NAZAR3NE

ON LIVE is right up my alley. I'm looking at it as something to have in addition to my 360/PS3 and as a replacement for my headache of a PC that I don't even have yet. In no way should this replace ones console. Check out the video interview @GameTrailers now.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/47079.html

I'm really digging the community features like massive spectating and the brag-clip-button that's located conveniently on the bottom of the controller/mapped to key of choice. ON LIVE sounds totally rad and I think it will be worth a subscription to play games like Crysis with the settings turned all the way up... This is the future people... as long as in doesn't lag, lmao.

Avatar image for thehbk
TheHBK

5674

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 6

Edited By TheHBK

The thing is that I am skeptical but I really do hope it works.  I have not played PC games for a while because it is too hard to keep up with hardware requirements, but if this works, I would get on board and if it is cheap and not too expensive to subscribe, then whats the harm?  Well just to other console manufacturers of course, but I guess for now this only works on PC games, no halo or gears for the OnLive.

Avatar image for billysea
billysea

111

Forum Posts

24

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 10

Edited By billysea

I am excited.  When is it coming out though, and I think this will be adopted by the bigger companies (Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo) before this comes to life.

Avatar image for blaster
Blaster

65

Forum Posts

69

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Blaster

one problem with this approach is that its gonna be the quotas that Internet providers are implementing now.  They will soon not be enoght for anything.

Avatar image for kwaz990
Kwaz990

27

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Kwaz990

I think this is a great idea.  It could potential end the console war, in my opinion

Avatar image for det1
Det1

193

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 3

Edited By Det1

Yes.
Put an extremely long distance between the IO devices and the computing unit.
WHAT COULD GO WRONG

Avatar image for citizenkane
citizenkane

10894

Forum Posts

29122

Wiki Points

2067

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 106

Edited By citizenkane

I don't see this being viable at least until 2020 when the bandwidth needed for this to be successful will be readily available.

Avatar image for hwarang
hwarang

157

Forum Posts

2

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

Edited By hwarang

I don't think it would work particularly well because of bandwidth limitations. In addition, there will always be a group of gamers who consider games'  value in the fact that they are products and not a service. 

Avatar image for osaladin
Osaladin

2699

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Osaladin

I think this will be the next step in gaming, if they can master dishing out those games at the speed of regular cable internet, then we have something amazing here. This has definitely peeked my interest, I'll follow this very closely. 

Avatar image for foxhound421
foxhound421

86

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By foxhound421

the SEGA Channel says hi.

Avatar image for shirome
ShiroMe

141

Forum Posts

11

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By ShiroMe

Bad! Very bad!

Avatar image for unclejohn0525
unclejohn0525

412

Forum Posts

705

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 1

Edited By unclejohn0525

Ugh... Phantom 2? Whatever, I really don't care about this. I like having physical copies of my games.

Avatar image for thomasmolby
thomasmolby

210

Forum Posts

19

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 1

Edited By thomasmolby

Feel uncomfortable about this :/

but then again, if my ps3 only used streaming my blu-ray drive wouldn't have been broken :(

Avatar image for nukegoboom
NukeGoBoom

518

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By NukeGoBoom

Also somwhere Denis Dyack is masturbating furiously.

Avatar image for diamond
Diamond

8678

Forum Posts

533

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

Edited By Diamond

Biggest technical problem : How are they going to buy the millions of PCs needed to RENDER THE GRAPHICS for millions of streamed video feeds to end users?

Avatar image for toma
TomA

2787

Forum Posts

188

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 11

Edited By TomA

at best 80 ping? that's decent but not as a maximum

Avatar image for supercubedude
supercubedude

573

Forum Posts

226

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

Edited By supercubedude

If I never have to buy a console or graphics card ever again, the future can't come soon enough.

Avatar image for headcase
headcase

79

Forum Posts

41

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By headcase

I would never EVER buy this console.


Smash Bros Brawl on a TV with 40ms lag makes it nearly unplayable (personal experience. I know the lag is 40ms because that's what we use to calibrate Rock Band).

Man will land on Mars before this becomes practical (barring, like, Chess, but I think any low-end PC can handle that anyway).

(Edit: originally I said 20ms, but now I remember it's 40. That's definitely the right number :)

Edit again: The other thing is that since this is a subscription service, that requires a constant internet connection to use, DRM would go through the roof.
Avatar image for renegade
Renegade

377

Forum Posts

4

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Renegade
I posted this on another site, but wanted to also post it here. The amount of bandwidth required to execute something of this scale must be immense, not to mention they also need numerous amounts of considerably high end servers to run these games. Tack on 10-100 thousand users, and I'd question how, and if they will be able to handle the load, or even have the money to run their service without any lag or load balancing issues becoming visible on the users end.

After you get past this, there are of course bandwidth limitations for the user, and I can imagine that playing a game for 20+ hours to finish it would utilize an insane amount of bandwidth. So, not only are you paying a monthly subscription, you are also likely going to have to pay overage fees to your ISP. I wonder if it would simply be cheaper to purchase the high end PC in the long run.

Bearing all that in mind, this is a great idea, and it could work, but there are a lot of obstacles in their way. If it becomes popular enough, maybe it will pressure ISP's to remove bandwidth limitations (or have cheaper overage fees), in which case I'm all for it, but I doubt they will ever do that.
Avatar image for gunner
Gunner

4424

Forum Posts

248

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 6

User Lists: 6

Edited By Gunner

sounds interesting but it seems like they are over complicating something that works fine the way it is for no reason.

if it aint broke, dont fix it.

Avatar image for upwardbound
upwarDBound

658

Forum Posts

2

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

Edited By upwarDBound

If it's affordable, I could see something like this taking off. Not having to buy an expensive new console or gaming PC every four years would save a lot of money.


Avatar image for gearhead
gearhead

2381

Forum Posts

1594

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 7

Edited By gearhead

Yeah this seems to be completely unrealistic, at least at this time.

Avatar image for pibo47
Pibo47

3238

Forum Posts

8

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 3

Edited By Pibo47

I totally want this.

Avatar image for zitosilva
zitosilva

1897

Forum Posts

805

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 3

Edited By zitosilva

I don't know, it sounds way too "cloudy" to me. Putting aside all the technical aspects, I don't believe this really is what people are looking for right now. A downloadable thing or two, I think most are fine with that. But take away any form of physical format? I know some preach that the days of physical media are very numbered, like in five years we won't see any physical format at all... people are fetishist, this may happen one day, but it'll not be as soon as most make it out to be. Maybe us "internet folk" are ready for this, but I'm not so sure about the average consumer. This is still... too futuristic.

Avatar image for aaron_g
Aaron_G

1694

Forum Posts

3259

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 8

User Lists: 6

Edited By Aaron_G

I don't think I would enjoy it as much.

Avatar image for smugdarkloser
SmugDarkLoser

5040

Forum Posts

114

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

Edited By SmugDarkLoser

Yea, sure....
No, not happening.  You can't transfer a constant stream of video that fast at a reasonable resolution.   Not happening.

I'm also sensing major latency
Ahh... it's just not happening.  These two things make it just unfeasible.  Maybe once fiber optics and we have rediculously fast conneciton speeds, but I'm calling BS.

Avatar image for diamond
Diamond

8678

Forum Posts

533

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

Edited By Diamond

I'll go along with a lot of others and say I didn't expect this for a long time.

My impression was a distant future computer that would render so much realistic real-world physics that the performance of outputting video to millions of users would be small and far more efficient than running that level of physics on millions of separate units.  This would allow the users to all interact in a single world with extremely small latency.

Avatar image for ddensel
ddensel

423

Forum Posts

5610

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 5

User Lists: 1

Edited By ddensel

On Live? You mean the Phantom?

No Caption Provided

Avatar image for sin4profit
Sin4profit

3505

Forum Posts

1621

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 37

User Lists: 2

Edited By Sin4profit

It's an interesting idea full of possibilities...in theory.
For console gamers this thing's no threat at all..this thing's for people who want to play PC games but don't want to constantly keep up with the hardware upgrades.

Same as the Phantom? No, it's not...Xbox Live Marketplace is what the Phantom wanted to be...this thing's suggesting that you don't need to download data into a local system, no harddrive required. Basically this service has you controlling someone else's computer over a network (sending their computer the IO/controller input data)  and that computer's sending you back the video and audio output only.

I'm curious about this thing..the idea of just playing any demo i want without having to download it first is pretty appealing. I think this is definatly the way the PC gaming market needs to go if it wants to stop piracy dead, no more DRM issues, just play PC games as conveniently as console gamers get.

But in reality i don't see this thing succeeding unless they can make exclusive games that gamers will want to play....i don't see it being cheap enough to get my interest, and i don't see enough people taking an interest to where they could lower the prices.

Avatar image for jaypee
JayPee

46

Forum Posts

2

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By JayPee

What's the bandwidth of a full 1080p signal or even 720p when you factor in the colour depth most people take as standard? HD probably isn't high on the list of priorities of the target demographic I guess....


Certainly UK broadband has a fair way to come to deliver streaming video for the number of hours I game each day. Right now just watching the video contect on this site has forced my ISP to ramp my connection to a ridiculously low speed during peak (read 'gaming') hours. It could also never really be competitive - what if there was a newtork stall just as you reached a critical moment in a single plyer game, not to mention multiplayer (lag switch sensitivity anyone!)?

Even if you could do it would you want to? Consolidating computer power seems an awfully messy solution when you factor in scaleability. And rolling this kind of thing out internationally would be simply horrid.
Avatar image for prinny_god
prinny_god

337

Forum Posts

-1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

Edited By prinny_god

not now but in like 10 years yes

Avatar image for damnboyadvance
damnboyadvance

4216

Forum Posts

1020

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 20

User Lists: 4

Edited By damnboyadvance

I might try it. MIGHT.

Avatar image for scratch
Scratch

647

Forum Posts

2520

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 8

Edited By Scratch

I don't know, something seems off. I really can't imagine this being the new "console".

Avatar image for keeng
Keeng

1023

Forum Posts

2513

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 5

User Lists: 3

Edited By Keeng

If you don't have a flawless internet connection, then what? I really hope this NEVER happens because not everyone has a reliable, lag-free connection. Who wants to sacrifice the quality of their games? I understand the enormous benefits but I don't want the risks involved either. 

Avatar image for monkeyman864
monkeyman864

82

Forum Posts

101

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

Edited By monkeyman864

This could truly revolutionize gaming as we know it.  If this fails I will not be surprised.

Avatar image for twoonefive
TwoOneFive

9793

Forum Posts

203

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Edited By TwoOneFive


The controler looks great, very 360 like which is totally a-okay, but uh, the button....E and V should be different, that sounds too close, over online games, if there even is online multiplayer (hurry up and answer that) telling people which button to push or something like that could get confusing.. did you say V!? no, i said V!!! you mean E?! NO, V!!!!
edit: just realized it stands for LIVE, but it doesn't matter, they should do away and come up with something different. i think sony's shapes were the best idea for buttons....
but i have to repeat, i really like that controller design, looks 360ish so you know its comfy and great for fps games, and it has a very sleek sexy ps3ish tone.
Avatar image for jquizzle
JQuizzle

49

Forum Posts

21

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By JQuizzle

i think this is very COOL but i think my inter net is to slow!!

Avatar image for rhcpfan24
RHCPfan24

8663

Forum Posts

22301

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 16

User Lists: 8

Edited By RHCPfan24

I don't really like this idea. Besides, many people don't even have competent PC's and Mac's so it may not be able to run properly. I just don' like the idea of ALL streaming. It gives me a bad feeling.

Avatar image for jakob187
jakob187

22972

Forum Posts

10045

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 8

User Lists: 9

Edited By jakob187

Not the first time someone has tried to do this concept *cough*PHANTOM*cough*...and I guarantee it'll die just like the rest before it.

Avatar image for mordeaniischaos
MordeaniisChaos

5904

Forum Posts

-1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 5

User Lists: 5

Edited By MordeaniisChaos

Even if it works... I'm not so happy about this. And I am not sure this will work anyway, and it certainly won't be able to run Crysis at Max (and lets be honest, you wouldnt want to, the detail goes beyond that, trust me) especially when a million people do the same. Personally, I think I am happy with my consoles as it is. I dunno why, but this makes me uneasy. Its reallllllly cool technology, or use of technology at the least, but I'm not sure this is gunna work to the gamer's advantage. What can I say, I'm not an optimist.

Avatar image for tarakun
Tarakun

239

Forum Posts

12

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Tarakun

This seems like a cool idea, but I don't want it. What am I supposed to do when my internet's down? And besides that, I like having consoles and game boxes. It makes me feel good to see a ton of games on my shelf.

Avatar image for momentarylogic
momentarylogic

443

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 17

User Lists: 4

Edited By momentarylogic

I love the idea, the only problem is getting everyone on board or a great deal of everyone. The hardware developers are going to drop money down against it, intel/amd/nvidia so that might be a hinderance. But if it does happen, I would drop for a really big and expensive TV.

Avatar image for yakomo
Yakomo

28

Forum Posts

7

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 3

Edited By Yakomo

I seriously doubt issues with latency can completely be addressed, especially with the fact that the speed of light, is still the speed of light, no matter what planet you're on.   You would need to establish many regional server farms to be able to maintain a low and tolerable latency.   With the fact that we're clearly moving in the direction of HD, the bandwidth issues will be even higher.  From a computer science point of view, the benefits of data caching, especially with the most expensive (time bound resource) being the network jack you're plugged into, it makes sense to maintain an end point unit (referencing the XBOX 360, PS3, Wii, PC... etc...)

You'll find that even the processor you're using to view this html page, uses level 2 caching, and tries it's best to conserve the bus bandwidth between the processor and the memory.

With the obvious need to upgrade the end point unit regularly anyway, given new network protocols, faster networking tech (ie. Gigabit Ethernet becoming common), newer display mediums (ie. 3D displays) or even newer controllers (Keyless keyboards >.<; ).  It makes sense that the current video gaming model will continue to persist in the near if not indefinite future... assuming the world doesn't end.  

Avatar image for paisan13
paisan13

165

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By paisan13

While all the WoW guys may find this idea interesting, as i'm only playing single player games i don't find this all to interesting, except the concept which is kinda cool.

Avatar image for crono
Crono

2762

Forum Posts

-1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 23

User Lists: 6

Edited By Crono

Speaking of latency/ping in games; Why do nearly all console games ignore showing you your ping?  Some do but most don't/won't; hiding your ping seems to have become the rule rather than the exception.  I hate having to guess which game will be playable and which will be a whack-a-mole event where enemies are constantly popping all over the screen.

Also, I like the idea of the server cloud-idea because it will right a huge wrong that consoles have going on for them:  Currently nearly every console game uses peer-to-peer method of hosting/playing games and that is a terrible way to enjoy a game online.  You can't freely join and drop in and out of most console games online, you have to go to a lobby, wait for everyone to join, start the game, play a couple of rounds, then wait around till the game starts again, initiating the process all over again.

With dedicated servers these issues end.  You can join a game whenever you want knowing that the server which you are joining has only 1 purpose: to host the game you are joining.  You can freely join and leave a game whenever you want for as long as you want without having to search for a new game every round.  The max players could potentially increase in most games as well.

To me, this is one of the biggest draw-backs of console games online, the lack of dedicated servers.
I like that consoles give you an even footing, even if I hate playing shooters with sticks (sorry, mouse > sticks :p ) but I wish they would adopt some of the PC's finer points like dedicated servers; you would think a subscription to xbox live would at least help pay for some on the 360 side of things... -_-

Avatar image for mikemcn
mikemcn

8642

Forum Posts

4863

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 8

Edited By mikemcn

Huh.... i just bought a better PC to keep up with changes in hardware i sure hope this doesnt make that a total waste of time.

Avatar image for thejollyrajah
TheJollyRajah

1605

Forum Posts

1520

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 2

Edited By TheJollyRajah

I don't think it would work now, but wait just 20 years and I think we'll have the technology for it. It's not practical now, but it will be in the future.