@Video_Game_King said:

@Animasta said:

There's a lot of different types of feminism out there, she subscribes to one of the more extreme ones.

Which is probably why she's so damn "popular": people want to discredit all types of feminism, so they cite the more extreme versions as representative of the entire social movement. Why do you think bra burnings are even a (very ironic) concept?

there's also the fact that the social justice warriors of tumblr are wayyyyyyy into that shit. The more extreme someone is, the more they get noticed; by both sides of the argument.

@PandaBear: You still have a chance to walk away from this. I would take it if I were you.

Stop giving her publicity then. She thrives off of it, that Kickstarter money didn't come from anywhere.

@Animasta:

Internet, I take it?

@Video_Game_King said:

@Animasta:

Internet, I take it?

sometimes I wonder if the internet has ruined civil discourse.

@hakunin said:

@Hailinel said:

@hakunin said:

@gogosox82 said:

@hakunin said:

@Hailinel said:

@hakunin said:

So, uh... could anyone describe some of what might have ticked Anita Sakarisijnvndjkfgnwhatever about the portrayal of women in DmC? I'm genuinely curious as I haven't played the game yet.

@Spike_Kojima said:

I'm a few hours into DmC on the PC and I love the gameplay and the level design but come on, women really aren't shown in a good light. Pretty much all the women so far beside Dante's mother and Kat have been just empty one dimensional sexual playthings. Kat is treated like a kid and hides whenever there's any action and Dante's mother was murdered in her home. Fuck do I know , tho.

Probably this.

I'm missing the part that describe actual degrading of women in that post.

Probably the part in bold is the problem.

Are you seriously trying to argue that a female character getting murdered is sexist and degrading against women?!

Did you miss the part describing every other woman aside from Kat and Dante's mother as being one-dimensional sexual playthings?

I missed the bolded part and thought he was talking about the spoiler. What I didn't miss (because it wasn't there) was the the description of what it was that made Dante's mother and Kat into "one-dimensional sexual playthings".

Well that's his reasoning so i really can't comment of why he thinks since i haven't played the game but if that's true surely its understandable why its off putting isn't?

@Animasta said:

@Video_Game_King said:

@Animasta:

Internet, I take it?

sometimes I wonder if the internet has ruined civil discourse.

That wasn't the Internet. That was post-modernism.

@algertman: If anything this only makes me enjoy it more.

@Oldirtybearon said:

@Animasta said:

@Video_Game_King said:

@Animasta:

Internet, I take it?

sometimes I wonder if the internet has ruined civil discourse.

That wasn't the Internet. That was post-modernism.

the internet probably didn't help though

I have a penis. Does that mean i'm a bad person?

@hakunin said:

@Hailinel said:

@hakunin said:

@gogosox82 said:

@hakunin said:

@Hailinel said:

@hakunin said:

So, uh... could anyone describe some of what might have ticked Anita Sakarisijnvndjkfgnwhatever about the portrayal of women in DmC? I'm genuinely curious as I haven't played the game yet.

@Spike_Kojima said:

I'm a few hours into DmC on the PC and I love the gameplay and the level design but come on, women really aren't shown in a good light. Pretty much all the women so far beside Dante's mother and Kat have been just empty one dimensional sexual playthings. Kat is treated like a kid and hides whenever there's any action and Dante's mother was murdered in her home. Fuck do I know , tho.

Probably this.

I'm missing the part that describe actual degrading of women in that post.

Probably the part in bold is the problem.

Are you seriously trying to argue that a female character getting murdered is sexist and degrading against women?!

Did you miss the part describing every other woman aside from Kat and Dante's mother as being one-dimensional sexual playthings?

I missed the bolded part and thought he was talking about the spoiler. What I didn't miss (because it wasn't there) was the the description of what it was that made Dante's mother and Kat into "one-dimensional sexual playthings".

Well that's his reasoning so i really can't comment of why he thinks since i haven't played the game but if that's true surely its understandable why its off putting isn't?

No One said:

I'm surprised.

@Animasta said:

@Oldirtybearon said:

@Animasta said:

@Video_Game_King said:

@Animasta:

Internet, I take it?

sometimes I wonder if the internet has ruined civil discourse.

That wasn't the Internet. That was post-modernism.

the internet probably didn't help though

The Internet is a tool. All it does is amplify the signal it receives. Blame the people, not the tool.

@Pr1mus said:

I have a penis. Does that mean i'm a bad person?

yes

I am the worst person of all time

@Animasta said:

@Video_Game_King said:

@Animasta:

Internet, I take it?

sometimes I wonder if the internet has ruined civil discourse.

The Internet is much like the Hulk: it is thought to reveal the worst in its subject, but the reality is that it brings to the surface and amplifies that subjects true nature.

@golguin said:

@MariachiMacabre said:

Who the fuck gives a shit? I'm perfectly happy to criticize her for not delivering on her Kickstarter but this is in NO WAY related to that. So she doesn't like the game. Is she supposed to just parrot what other reviewers are saying about it? Jeff hates RDR, I don't see anyone attempting to crucify him. From what I've seen of DmC, it looks awesome but attacking her for not liking it is pathetic.

Jeff's hate for RDR is no reason to crucify him. It's a reason to throw your hands up in disbelief.

Red Dead Redemption is the best. Fuck Jeff for not liking it (sarcasm). Now what's this I hear about Patrick playing Fire Emblem?

@Animasta said:

@TheHT: that's why I didn't bother! that entire comments section was a goddamn echo chamber for both sides.

someone in it was defending demons. not figurative ones. actual demons from DmC.

and i couldn't tell if they were serious or not.

@buft said:

@algertman said:

Anita Sarkeesian tweeted she hates the game.

https://twitter.com/femfreq

So here's the thing. Since the gaming press is filled with white knights and people who refuse to call her out for not having a single YouTube video ready yet will they start to back track on DmC? This game reviewed well and currently in the mid 80's range on metacritic with reviewers.

She tweeted she hates the game because its filled with misogynistic tropes, now I'm no scholar, so i went to look at the definition of misogynistic, turns out its literal definition is the hatred of women, thinking back through my time with the game so far and i've not finished so again i could be wrong but no one; at least overtly hates women so i dug further and apparently a new modern wave of feminism subscribe to a theory that men in a patriarchal society veiw woman as two things mothers or whores. whores being "woman who dont live up to the abrahamic standard of moral purity"

now with this theory in place i can see that yes the game certainly does hold these values as in the game the only woman that is depicted in any sort of non sexual way is dantes mother, all other supporting females are either dressed provocatively or displayed openly as concubine whores with Dante himself falling to another of modern feminism because he is a "womaniser" as displayed in the opening few scenes.

Now here is where i chime in with my two cents and i could be wrong because unfortunately Anita did not expand much beyond her text that she hates the game because its misogynistic so this is all theory crafting, im guessing that Anita hates that the game features a concubine in the opening scenes because lets face it this is a woman in servitude to a male oppressor for the sole goal of pleasuring him but where my opinion and Anitas differs is where she sees a woman i see a demon and where she sees servitude i see a controlling power, an almost equal voice.

sometimes you just have to look at the other side of the fence and see what other people see, I can certainly see where Anita is coming from, she sees the female characters and their role in the game and notices that they appear as sex objects or less powerful than their male equivalents but for me i tend not to think about things in terms of man or woman and look at characters as just people and thats what i dislike about modern feminism is that it assumes everyone thinks in these terms and picks apart characters for those traits which go against the theory they subscribe too and parade it as proof that these characters are the work of a misogynist society when as a whole the characters could be considered strong and well rounded.

I just want to add that I believe woman deserve an equal footing in society, my dislike of modern feminism should not be construed as a misogynistic attempt to waylay any work towards building a better future for everyone because im not blind to the fact that in society women can at times get the short straw but i don't believe picking apart video games is the answer, we need to crack down on societies where woman cant go to school, where woman can't progress further up the tree than middle management, where they get paid less for the same job, things that make a difference in the real world.

The last paragraph kind of makes you sound like feminist tbh. There are several different types of feminism and they don't all agree with each other. I also wouldn't describe Sarkeesian's form of feminism as "modern". She definitely adheres to a more extreme or radical feminism.

It's hard to agree or disagree with what she's tweeting when she doesn't elaborate. I haven't played the game, so I can't lean in one direction or the other.

@Animasta said:

@Pr1mus said:

I have a penis. Does that mean i'm a bad person?

yes

I am the worst person of all time

:(

I wonder if she got up to the sniper rifle abortion scene... Hm, I'm going back to my Japanese porn games.

@pw2566ch: check his twitter!

mad fire emblem bidness going on in there

For people who don't care, you're not helping by posting and making this steamroll into probably another hundred or so comments.

Hearing that the characters other than Kat and Dante's mother are just sexual playthings is not very encouraging, are there specific moments that are egregious? I don't mind getting spoiled.

@Pr1mus said:

@Animasta said:

@Pr1mus said:

I have a penis. Does that mean i'm a bad person?

yes

I am the worst person of all time

:(

I can't be bothered to take anything that crook says seriously.

@hakunin said:

@gogosox82 said:

@hakunin said:

@Hailinel said:

@hakunin said:

@gogosox82 said:

@hakunin said:

@Hailinel said:

@hakunin said:

So, uh... could anyone describe some of what might have ticked Anita Sakarisijnvndjkfgnwhatever about the portrayal of women in DmC? I'm genuinely curious as I haven't played the game yet.

@Spike_Kojima said:

I'm a few hours into DmC on the PC and I love the gameplay and the level design but come on, women really aren't shown in a good light. Pretty much all the women so far beside Dante's mother and Kat have been just empty one dimensional sexual playthings. Kat is treated like a kid and hides whenever there's any action and Dante's mother was murdered in her home. Fuck do I know , tho.

Probably this.

I'm missing the part that describe actual degrading of women in that post.

Probably the part in bold is the problem.

Are you seriously trying to argue that a female character getting murdered is sexist and degrading against women?!

Did you miss the part describing every other woman aside from Kat and Dante's mother as being one-dimensional sexual playthings?

I missed the bolded part and thought he was talking about the spoiler. What I didn't miss (because it wasn't there) was the the description of what it was that made Dante's mother and Kat into "one-dimensional sexual playthings".

Well that's his reasoning so i really can't comment of why he thinks since i haven't played the game but if that's true surely its understandable why its off putting isn't?

No that's his opinion. I'd like to form my own, if anyone could actually describe what I'm supposed to be so offended by.

Oh you don't have to be offended by anything. If it doesn't offend you, then it doesn't offend you. He just found the portrayal of women in dmc to be offensive ( offensive may be too harsh. maybe off putting is a better phrase? I dont' wanna put words in his mouth). You obviously don't have to be offended by it or even care tbh.

Why do the opinions of an incompetent troll matter?

Game is good. Her complaints are superficial and nitpicky.

@AssInAss said:

For people who don't care, you're not helping by posting and making this steamroll into probably another hundred or so comments.

Hearing that the characters other than Kat and Dante's mother are just sexual playthings is not very encouraging, are there specific moments that are egregious? I don't mind getting spoiled.

honestly you're better off creating a topic to discuss it without mentioning her than getting anything good out of this topic.

@PeasantAbuse said:

Some rhino legs and booty that's clappin

@musclerider said:

@Pr1mus said:

@Animasta said:

@Pr1mus said:

I have a penis. Does that mean i'm a bad person?

yes

I am the worst person of all time

:(

I was gonna go to sleep but fuck that. Ain't sleeping no more.

@hakunin said:

@gogosox82 said:

@hakunin said:

@Hailinel said:

@hakunin said:

@gogosox82 said:

@hakunin said:

@Hailinel said:

@hakunin said:

So, uh... could anyone describe some of what might have ticked Anita Sakarisijnvndjkfgnwhatever about the portrayal of women in DmC? I'm genuinely curious as I haven't played the game yet.

@Spike_Kojima said:

I'm a few hours into DmC on the PC and I love the gameplay and the level design but come on, women really aren't shown in a good light. Pretty much all the women so far beside Dante's mother and Kat have been just empty one dimensional sexual playthings. Kat is treated like a kid and hides whenever there's any action and Dante's mother was murdered in her home. Fuck do I know , tho.

Probably this.

I'm missing the part that describe actual degrading of women in that post.

Probably the part in bold is the problem.

Are you seriously trying to argue that a female character getting murdered is sexist and degrading against women?!

Did you miss the part describing every other woman aside from Kat and Dante's mother as being one-dimensional sexual playthings?

I missed the bolded part and thought he was talking about the spoiler. What I didn't miss (because it wasn't there) was the the description of what it was that made Dante's mother and Kat into "one-dimensional sexual playthings".

Well that's his reasoning so i really can't comment of why he thinks since i haven't played the game but if that's true surely its understandable why its off putting isn't?

No that's his opinion. I'd like to form my own, if anyone could actually describe what I'm supposed to be so offended by.

Oh you don't have to be offended by anything. If it doesn't offend you, then it doesn't offend you. He just found the portrayal of women in dmc to be offensive ( offensive may be too harsh. maybe off putting is a better phrase? I dont' wanna put words in his mouth). You obviously don't have to be offended by it or even care tbh.

I get the impression she hates alot of things.

She made a comment that went something like she would call DmC immature but that would be an insult to adolescent boys everywhere. Because all boys in their early teens are super immature for their age, but girls are totally fine. What a blatant sexist comment. I am horribly offended. She clearly just hates men and bases all her criticisms and arguments entirely around that.

See, I can blow things out of proportion, take them out of context, and then use broad strokes to make my poorly constructed arguments too.

@IBurningStar said:

She made a comment that went something like she would call DmC immature but that would be an insult to adolescent boys everywhere. Because all boys in their early teens are super immature for their age, but girls are totally fine. What a blatant sexist comment. I am horribly offended. She clearly just hates men and bases all her criticisms and arguments entirely around that.

See, I can blow things out of proportion, take them out of context, and then use broad strokes to make my poorly constructed arguments too.

Seriously, what a misandrist.

Amazing how people forget that misogyny has an opposite.

@Animasta said:

@AssInAss said:

For people who don't care, you're not helping by posting and making this steamroll into probably another hundred or so comments.

Hearing that the characters other than Kat and Dante's mother are just sexual playthings is not very encouraging, are there specific moments that are egregious? I don't mind getting spoiled.

honestly you're better off creating a topic to discuss it without mentioning her than getting anything good out of this topic.

Yeah, have a feeling this thread will go bad quick.

@AssInAss said:

@Animasta said:

@AssInAss said:

For people who don't care, you're not helping by posting and making this steamroll into probably another hundred or so comments.

Hearing that the characters other than Kat and Dante's mother are just sexual playthings is not very encouraging, are there specific moments that are egregious? I don't mind getting spoiled.

honestly you're better off creating a topic to discuss it without mentioning her than getting anything good out of this topic.

Yeah, have a feeling this thread will go bad quick.

The cast of the game is tiny. There's Dante, Vergil, Mundus, Kat, Mundus's succubus, a couple of bosses, some demon with half a head, and that's it. The general public is portrayed as fat, gross wastes of skin and the only other women that are depicted at all in the game (aside from Kat, succubus, and Eva) are the two strippers Dante has a threesome with in the opening credits.

But he totally subjugated them and oppressed them, he even made one of them write "had a great time, call me" on his forearm. That asshole. How dare he pleasure those women.

@Animasta: Ironic considering you're being hypocritical by repeatedly bumping this thread. If you disapprove of it so much, stop posting. Secondly, everyone holding hands and hating on someone who is a horrible person is a lot more productive than 90% of Off-Topic threads, especially when they deserve it. Feel free to create your own super entertaining thread if you want to bump this off the front page so bad.

If this twitter account us talking about Kat, then they're crazy. Kat is one of the coolest most likable female characters I've seen in a game in a pretty long while. Aside from that it can only be Mundus' succubus thing that looks disgusting, as it should since it's a evil hellspawn succubus. If it's Mundus' girlfriend thing, then look to succubus for further info. If it's Dante's mom, then what? She was barely in the game and is nothing but supportive in the scenes she's in. The only other female characters were the two strippers in the beginning of the game and so what, they were strippers. Strippers exist.

@CaptainCody said:

@Animasta: Ironic considering you're being hypocritical by repeatedly bumping this thread. If you disapprove of it so much, stop posting. Secondly, everyone holding hands and hating on someone who is a horrible person is a lot more productive than 90% of Off-Topic threads, especially when they deserve it. Feel free to create your own super entertaining thread if you want to bump this off the front page so bad.

oh noooooooooo, I'm hypocritical

I''m just saying that a topic more focused on DMC rather than Anita would be more handy for him, because 4/5's of this topic is arguing about her and that wasn't really relevant to him (unless that's not what you were talking about? I am tired and you weren't specific).

also this thread is fun now, me and ODB had our discussion and now we are the bestest of buds and are having a gay old time

@Oldirtybearon said:

@AssInAss said:

@Animasta said:

@AssInAss said:

For people who don't care, you're not helping by posting and making this steamroll into probably another hundred or so comments.

Hearing that the characters other than Kat and Dante's mother are just sexual playthings is not very encouraging, are there specific moments that are egregious? I don't mind getting spoiled.

honestly you're better off creating a topic to discuss it without mentioning her than getting anything good out of this topic.

Yeah, have a feeling this thread will go bad quick.

The cast of the game is tiny. There's Dante, Vergil, Mundus, Kat, Mundus's succubus, a couple of bosses, some demon with half a head, and that's it. The general public is portrayed as fat, gross wastes of skin and the only other women that are depicted at all in the game (aside from Kat, succubus, and Eva) are the two strippers Dante has a threesome with in the opening credits.

But he totally subjugated them and oppressed them, he even made one of them write "had a great time, call me" on his forearm. That asshole. How dare he pleasure those women.

Sex is clearly only for the benefit of men, women get nothing out of consensual sex. I think I should also point out F/F/M threesomes never happen, not once in the history of man. We're all about the 1v1.

@HistoryInRust said:

@PandaBear: You still have a chance to walk away from this. I would take it if I were you.

I ... I can't.

Women ruin games! I'm not sexist! Guys in games are sex objects too, I don't complain! Bitch should shut up! I'm not anti-feminist but get back in the kitchen/laundry/make a baby!!! Lara Croft is meant to be sexy!!!! She should get off her boyfriends Xbox Live account!!! Waaaaahhhhhh!!!!

That about does it.

@Animasta said:

@CaptainCody said:

@Animasta: Ironic considering you're being hypocritical by repeatedly bumping this thread. If you disapprove of it so much, stop posting. Secondly, everyone holding hands and hating on someone who is a horrible person is a lot more productive than 90% of Off-Topic threads, especially when they deserve it. Feel free to create your own super entertaining thread if you want to bump this off the front page so bad.

oh noooooooooo, I'm hypocritical

I''m just saying that a topic more focused on DMC rather than Anita would be more handy for him, because 4/5's of this topic is arguing about her and that wasn't really relevant to him (unless that's not what you were talking about? I am tired and you weren't specific).

also this thread is fun now, me and ODB had our discussion and now we are the bestest of buds and are having a gay old time

Judging by the title, I'd say the thread is more about Anita than DMC, but I'll leave you to your enjoyment.

@TheManiacsGnome said:

@Oldirtybearon said:

@AssInAss said:

@Animasta said:

@AssInAss said:

For people who don't care, you're not helping by posting and making this steamroll into probably another hundred or so comments.

Hearing that the characters other than Kat and Dante's mother are just sexual playthings is not very encouraging, are there specific moments that are egregious? I don't mind getting spoiled.

honestly you're better off creating a topic to discuss it without mentioning her than getting anything good out of this topic.

Yeah, have a feeling this thread will go bad quick.

The cast of the game is tiny. There's Dante, Vergil, Mundus, Kat, Mundus's succubus, a couple of bosses, some demon with half a head, and that's it. The general public is portrayed as fat, gross wastes of skin and the only other women that are depicted at all in the game (aside from Kat, succubus, and Eva) are the two strippers Dante has a threesome with in the opening credits.

But he totally subjugated them and oppressed them, he even made one of them write "had a great time, call me" on his forearm. That asshole. How dare he pleasure those women.

Sex is clearly only for the benefit of men, women get nothing out of consensual sex. I think I should also point out F/F/M threesomes never happen, not once in the history of man. We're all about the 1v1.

to be fair, F/F/M is way way more common in fiction than F/M/M, of which I can only remember the three way song from SNL with lady gaga

@BisonHero said:

@Undeadpool said:

@algertman said:

So here's the thing. Since the gaming press is filled with white knights and people who refuse to call her out for not having a single YouTube video ready yet will they start to back track on DmC? This game reviewed well and currently in the mid 80's range on metacritic with reviewers.

I'm gonna say the "white knights" are outnumbered by the "death threats."

It's deplorable that Sarkeesian missed her deadline by so much but god, I am so fucking tired of that term. It's possible to share an opinion with someone and defend their position without being a "white knight". Maybe you just feel the same way!

Yes, some people take it way too far, to the point that they're clearly just arguing more in defense of the person than the idea, but my god, don't just start calling goddamn everybody a white knight. I hate how fucking internet/4chan/SomethingAwful lingo makes it impossible to have a discussion because it denigrates everybody's position into "u mad?"/"stop white knighting"/"whatever, ur a troll"/"no u". Fucking children.

That too.

@Animasta: Oh for sure F/F/M is more common, and with good reason beyond the obvious "Men won't like that". I don't know how to say this without sounding weird but...watch F/F/M and then watch M/M/F tonally they are worlds apart. I could see a rationale in that the 2 female option is far more "Female friendly" to the viewer.

Yeah over analyzing threesomes in media. This is why I come to GB. :D

Oh, wow, the amount of bullshit in this thread is...

Alright, first off, DmC IS full of sexist tropes. I didn't need anybody to tell me this, it's pretty obvious. The game's story would have been way better if Kat was a male kid. Much, much better. From the fact that his being sexually abused as a child would have been less expected to the simple notion that Dante caring about the kid wouldn't have been a matter of a love interest, which sort of washes away the notion that Dante identifies with Kat as well as Vergil. It also breaks the fact that Kat seems to be written to be a teenager, but she spends the game in short shorts and a surprisingly skin-tight low cut shirt that make her look well in her twenties.

Not connected to this, DmC is a great, great game that is a lot of fun, and I don't even disapprove of the story as it is told, as a whole, much as Kat is a bit of a weak link in it.

You know what other beloved properties have similar levels of sexist tropes? Pretty much all of them. Does that mean I excuse sexist tropes? Nope, they suck. Does that mean that I dislike or that I'm unable to engage on every product that contains sexist tropes? Thankfully no, as I'd be left with very little in the way of western culture, let alone videogames, to enjoy. Doesn't mean I won't call out the tropes, though.

DmC is a game about masculinity, narratively. It's a game about a very specifically male teen punk growing out of being an idiot. It makes sense that he'd open the game in a vapid threesome with some strippers, that's not a problem. It makes sense that the females on the demon side would be a subjugated barbie doll used as a child receptacle and a deformed bulimic monster. Those are meant to be the results of the super-male Mundus oppressing the world, and are presented as a critique. That's why it's kind of a shame that Kat and Eva are such damsels in distress, and that no male entity appears as a damsel in distress at any point. It all comes down to Kat, in the end, as she is the archetype for the "good" female, and she's a victim of a bunch of sexist crap in the game as well, when the idea was for her to embody humanity. It's a valid criticism, but it doesn't destroy what is otherwise a very, very good game.

In retrospect, I'm a bit torn on whether Kat as a damaged, frail damsel in distress who is still fundamentally good and talented, is more or less of a problem for me than old DMC's oversexualized but physically powerful Trish. It's genuinely a bit of a wash and, if anything, Ninja Theory's history of female characters in Heavenly Sword and Enslaved makes me more willing to give them a pass on Kat being a mistake rather than a deliberate statement.

@gogosox82 said:

@buft said:

@algertman said:

Anita Sarkeesian tweeted she hates the game.

https://twitter.com/femfreq

So here's the thing. Since the gaming press is filled with white knights and people who refuse to call her out for not having a single YouTube video ready yet will they start to back track on DmC? This game reviewed well and currently in the mid 80's range on metacritic with reviewers.

She tweeted she hates the game because its filled with misogynistic tropes, now I'm no scholar, so i went to look at the definition of misogynistic, turns out its literal definition is the hatred of women, thinking back through my time with the game so far and i've not finished so again i could be wrong but no one; at least overtly hates women so i dug further and apparently a new modern wave of feminism subscribe to a theory that men in a patriarchal society veiw woman as two things mothers or whores. whores being "woman who dont live up to the abrahamic standard of moral purity"

now with this theory in place i can see that yes the game certainly does hold these values as in the game the only woman that is depicted in any sort of non sexual way is dantes mother, all other supporting females are either dressed provocatively or displayed openly as concubine whores with Dante himself falling to another of modern feminism because he is a "womaniser" as displayed in the opening few scenes.

Now here is where i chime in with my two cents and i could be wrong because unfortunately Anita did not expand much beyond her text that she hates the game because its misogynistic so this is all theory crafting, im guessing that Anita hates that the game features a concubine in the opening scenes because lets face it this is a woman in servitude to a male oppressor for the sole goal of pleasuring him but where my opinion and Anitas differs is where she sees a woman i see a demon and where she sees servitude i see a controlling power, an almost equal voice.

sometimes you just have to look at the other side of the fence and see what other people see, I can certainly see where Anita is coming from, she sees the female characters and their role in the game and notices that they appear as sex objects or less powerful than their male equivalents but for me i tend not to think about things in terms of man or woman and look at characters as just people and thats what i dislike about modern feminism is that it assumes everyone thinks in these terms and picks apart characters for those traits which go against the theory they subscribe too and parade it as proof that these characters are the work of a misogynist society when as a whole the characters could be considered strong and well rounded.

I just want to add that I believe woman deserve an equal footing in society, my dislike of modern feminism should not be construed as a misogynistic attempt to waylay any work towards building a better future for everyone because im not blind to the fact that in society women can at times get the short straw but i don't believe picking apart video games is the answer, we need to crack down on societies where woman cant go to school, where woman can't progress further up the tree than middle management, where they get paid less for the same job, things that make a difference in the real world.

The last paragraph kind of makes you sound like feminist tbh. There are several different types of feminism and they don't all agree with each other. I also wouldn't describe Sarkeesian's form of feminism as "modern". She definitely adheres to a more extreme or radical feminism.

you're completely correct, what i'd love to change about that whole sentence is to include everyone who is ever discriminated against regardless of color, creed , gender etc, lets just make all forms of discrimination go away, you arent the first person to point out that she may be more radical than i had previously thought, i didnt know too much about her work when i wrote this.

If we really wanna follow up on this story, we should gather 8 women from the industry and ask for their opinion about DmC.

@NoelVeiga said:

Oh, wow, the amount of bullshit in this thread is...

Alright, first off, DmC IS full of sexist tropes. I didn't need anybody to tell me this, it's pretty obvious. The game's story would have been way better if Kat was a male kid. Much, much better. From the fact that his being sexually abused as a child would have been less expected to the simple notion that Dante caring about the kid wouldn't have been a matter of a love interest, which sort of washes away the notion that Dante identifies with Kat as well as Vergil. It also breaks the fact that Kat seems to be written to be a teenager, but she spends the game in short shorts and a surprisingly skin-tight low cut shirt that make her look well in her twenties.

Not connected to this, DmC is a great, great game that is a lot of fun, and I don't even disapprove of the story as it is told, as a whole, much as Kat is a bit of a weak link in it.

You know what other beloved properties have similar levels of sexist tropes? Pretty much all of them. Does that mean I excuse sexist tropes? Nope, they suck. Does that mean that I dislike or that I'm unable to engage on every product that contains sexist tropes? Thankfully no, as I'd be left with very little in the way of western culture, let alone videogames, to enjoy. Doesn't mean I won't call out the tropes, though.

DmC is a game about masculinity, narratively. It's a game about a very specifically male teen punk growing out of being an idiot. It makes sense that he'd open the game in a vapid threesome with some strippers, that's not a problem. It makes sense that the females on the demon side would be a subjugated barbie doll used as a child receptacle and a deformed bulimic monster. Those are meant to be the results of the super-male Mundus oppressing the world, and are presented as a critique. That's why it's kind of a shame that Kat and Eva are such damsels in distress, and that no male entity appears as a damsel in distress at any point. It all comes down to Kat, in the end, as she is the archetype for the "good" female, and she's a victim of a bunch of sexist crap in the game as well, when the idea was for her to embody humanity. It's a valid criticism, but it doesn't destroy what is otherwise a very, very good game.

In retrospect, I'm a bit torn on whether Kat as a damaged, frail damsel in distress who is still fundamentally good and talented, is more or less of a problem for me than old DMC's oversexualized but physically powerful Trish. It's genuinely a bit of a wash and, if anything, Ninja Theory's history of female characters in Heavenly Sword and Enslaved makes me more willing to give them a pass on Kat being a mistake rather than a deliberate statement.

Thanks for the insightful write-up, enjoyed reading that.