This looked like the most interesting discussion on the game and its ending so I wanted to give my thoughts. First I really liked the game and the ending but it sits weird with me. So I gotta talk about it!
Sorry its long but I read everyone's comments up to this point. All my issues are either not said by anyone else or a response to someone's post.
Beginning of the game. Who put the note on the door bring us to girl to erase the debt? Who killed the guy in the lighthouse? Was he just a guard? I would say the Luteces but they don't directly interact with anything in their weird new quantum state. They certainly don't kill anyone. They only talk to Booker and Elizabeth and give them items from time to time. Also they gave Booker a gun in the beginning, he totally should of been able to take care of 1 guard in the beginning he didn't need that help. Any connections to the musical notes to fly up to Columbia and songbird?
For the people who don't believe the Luteces are the same person from different dimensions. Someone already explained that with infinite possibilities there is a chance you can be born male or female thats why the different genders for the same person in this case. I suggest you find more audio logs, I didn't get all of them, but I got most, I missed about 7. I'll try to listen to them all when I can. One talks about how they are the same person and spoke to each other using science. As for PROOF, the ending the male one says he went through the same thing as Booker right after he leaves the room after he handed the baby over. He is referring to the memory merge of other versions of himself. The Luteces went through the same thing likely the first time the met. Booker goes through this when he kills Comstock (why it dosn't happen before or more importantly why he doesn't get any Comstock's memories, I don't know. I will talk about this further down). This leads to the explanation that the reason the male and female Luteces are so in sync with each other is because they share the same memories. The moment a memory is formed the other instantly knows and can finish the sentence. If you want to get technical there is probably some quantum stuff happening where they know who's going to do which part of the sentence so that they don't talk at the same time so they yield each other in turn so they don't speak to each other. I'd say this is either because of 1 or both of these reasons, the memory sharing and in one audio log they say they were killed and didn't die, I'm guessing a dumbass who was sent to kill them killed them in their office with the (time?)machine. In the audio log they say their atoms or whatever were scattered through possibility or something. This is why their powers are more god-like. They just pop in and out and disappear without even using tears. I think they were very interesting characters and since they became scattered they seem to be the only 2 Latices in the universe unlike everyone else who has infinite versions of themselves they have their past actions's many versions and then anytime after their death there are JUST those 2. Last bit of evidence, they tease you that they won't leave till you do when you first see them and linger. And in the bar when you shoot them it clearly hits them but the female Lutece says "you missed". They acknowledge your attempts and tell you what happened when you shot them very funny stuff lol. Anyway they can no longer be killed.
About when the main char dies in-gameplay. The first time it happens and Elizabeth isn't around he opens his office door and is like "wtf?". I am thinking that reality becomes one where he died and then ANOTHER version of booker runs through the whole game up to the point that you are at and then continues. All memories converge and the prev one is either assimilated or that doesn't happen because everything up to that point was the same anyway.
For the people who want to believe Booker and Comstock being the same person is only FIGURATIVE due to the comparisons between how they both treated Elizabeth. I think this is not the the case. The game went to extreme lengths to shove it into your face and its in within possibility due to the things the game introduces for them to be the same. Multiple universes, time travel etc. If they just wanted to point out a thematic similarity they didn't have to do the detailed explanation at the end (which still left out some things). But my biggest reason why I think it was literal is because if it wasn't the Elizabeths don't have a reason to kill Booker. What would be the reason if not to close all timelines by ending Comstock. Elizabeth doesn't seem mad she was given away at all. She has more of the attitude that this is what happened and accepts that part. She seems to hate Comstock more and still empathetic to Booker since she says at the last door "Are you SURE you want to do this?". So even if he doesn't know she's agreeing the end desired result is to end Comstock.
Now about the stuff I thought was weird or possible holes. I want to figure these out. I hope they aren't oversights.
Comstock. Why does he have a weird warping voice sometimes? You meet him and hes just a normal human, no Quantum anything going on. Unlike Lutece's voice in the beginning through the door that is warped but that makes sense.
It seems like if you die once and then merge with another version of yourself you become a zombie. We saw this when we saw the first people who died and then a dimension jump. And at the Asylum where I'm guessing Elizabeth converged all versions of all people and destroyed the world? And then bombed New York for no good reason afterwards? I'm wondering who were those real people who appeared a few times in that future and how she made dimensional monster(s?). The blind one who sees you and sics the inmates at you. That could be 1 guy or I guess she could of made a few. Though with her powers unchained she'd be able to CREATE beings. My problem is this should happen to booker when he dies in-game. He should be a dimensional zombie. If not when he dies in gameplay if you want to say those "never happned" in cannon though I do think the game did make those deaths cannon, then right at the moment he killed Comstock. He merges with him after he dies since his nose bleeds and the screen gets static but doesn't become a zombie or remember his death. The static is a tell tale sign of the dimensional shift. You see it when you jump from dimension to dimension. Why does Booker never remember dying. Actually he does, the 1st time you die in-game. The static and black and white you see when you are at your office door is a sign that what is happening is dimensional Its possible he doesn't go through all the motions and a Lutece just throws one through the door to THAT VERY POINT in time and space if one booker dies lol. memories merge and he continues own. (but the question of physical items becomes an issue in that theory. Ammo, guns etc. as it would be on a separate dead Booker body). Back to the point about zombies. He possibly doesn't remember his death because it hasn't happened yet? (young booker younger than old booker who is the one that died.) But the game introduces a phenomenon of merging to a degree where 2 of the same person are in the same dimension at all. I admit the young booker vs older booker is unique to their situation and could be where that explanation to that lies. If you remember dying effects went into the future everyone would remember dying of old age so I think you remember up to the point of your other self's age. Meaning Old Booker-Comstock would know everything booker knows and everything he does as he does it. Young one won't know anything about Old one but then he shouldn't of been affected at ALL when Old Booker-Comstock dies in that case @_@
Comstock knows the future, but more than that he knows about every action Booker will take. I doubt he used the machine so much that he could draw up that detailed prophecy in the room right before you meet him. He sees Elizabeth killing Kilroy etc. I guess he had a time machine and a dimensional machine since you see him old fleeing the young booker. Male Lutece is there and I think its his first time to cross (so the jump was back in time AND in another dimension since Comstock had to pick a world where he didn't get reborn as to not endanger another Comstock lol). So he could have done stuff in these times so much he became old (20 years of jumping around time and then going back to "home base". But thats something I'd expect to be explicit in the game and I didn' see that). BUT I think his prophecies and foresight lies in him merging memories with Booker. He sees EVERYTHING booker does makes that detailed 6 panel summary of the game in the room before you meet him (for what reason?). The reason I think this is because he knows small stuff like the fact booker wrote AD on his hand. Since Comstock doesn't have this. I'm guessing he did it AFTER his failed rebirth. Unless he has a sharp eye while fleeing time holding a baby under pressure and in a tug of war lol. Although I think that is the official explanation :/ He does seem to have that advertisement up rather fast about the mark on his hand (side note how could Booker forget when he literally has Anna's Death AD engraved in his hand @_@ ) Anyway I support my idea because he has a WHOLE false profit prophecy. It goes beyond just a mark on his hand to identify him.
What I just said doesn't make any sense. Because Comstock doesn't try to kill Booker with any foreknowledge He just taunts him, does a half assed attempt and then doesn't do anything directly. He just throws up hurdles. There is not 1 attempt to kill Booker using foreknowledge either through shared memories or seeing the future. Whats the point of the prophecy, whats the point of putting Elizabeth in a tower? Whats the point of knowing everything Booker will do, write it on the wall and then let him kill Comstock? When he dies his final words is something like "AND NOW IT IS DONE". Him dying doesn't lead to the goal of destroying the world. His stated goal is what it always seemed like. Destroy Sodom, indoctrinate his people, groom his biological daughter to take his place since he saw his attempts will work and thats why he does it since he'll be too old by the time his civilization is able to take over the world. My only guess is that he couldn't anticipate OLD ELIZABETH'S time altering to make them win the final VOX fight. But if he knew they'd lose the VOX fight WHY COMMIT SUICIDE. He had no weapon and just talks about the finger and rages like a senile old man. Was he so sure nothing could possibly go wrong that he had to die right then and there? That accomplished... what?
Why does Comstock have 2 seemingly conflicting goals? Actually that is a question I have no idea. I don't see the motivation being: him trying to steal his daughter from himself so he can save his daughter from himself (meaning he needs to do something evil arbitrarily just to be an obstacle for obstacle's sake.) all for the purpose of killing himself so that he never sold his daughter to himself. I just noticed that when Booker is drowned at the end HE ACTUALLY IS WASHING AWAY HIS SINS. Unfortunately this falls flat because the original impetus for him to wash away his sins was BEFORE he sold his daughter so he already hated himself (maybe it was the stuff he did at wounded knee). The only thing that supports his self-defeating prophecy is the fact he changes Anna's name to Elizabeth to obscure it for ONLY young Booker who is the only one who would care allowing him to stay blind till the end. That can be argued that is to hinder him from finding Anna and having motivation though but by changing the name, he ALREADY knows he will be looking for her making the naming irrelevant in any case other than the self-defeating one.
The other reason why I think this is because a LOT of places were COMPLETELY unguarded. The ENTIRE place that Elizabeth was held had 0 count it ZERO guards. No scientists either which is weird since they were supposed to be observing her 24/7 right? Thats why they made that elaborate observing room. The only people that try to stop Booker are the ones that HAPPEN to find him based off info Comstock gave him LOOONG ago (pre-game) about a prophecy. Also they totally don't know what he looks like, his description for a while was he was either a Dwarf or a Giant and some other details were wrong like hair or something. COMSTOCK DOESN'T CORRECT THEM. At any point. A lot of fights afterwards are just in chaos and they are killing everyone so he is included. Or he gets caught somewhere he shouldn't be. I really don't think Comstock is trying to stop Booker. It could be so he gets to the end and kills him and then fails the Vox battle.
Interesting stuff. Slate talks about how the facts Comstock says doesn't match up to reality. Maybe that Comstock comes from a reality where that actually was true? Of course it could just be lies to hype himself up, there are times he did that like when he killed his wife and the Luteces. The Luteces know about what Booker does BEFORE he does it. Thats why they say he DOESN'T row. They brought him to he dock a bunch of times thats why they know he doesn't row the boat, I think most people will see that on a second playthrough cool though. Someone else mentioned the coin filp. I don't know why people think there was an option here to choose he just chooses heads on his own its ingrained in the story as EVERY Booker who came through always picked heads and he wasn't an "anomaly" or anything to pick tails he is/was always the same when he goes through the game. I found that interesting. Since this game has some quantum physics I guess you are supposed to superimpose the bird and cage neck-bracelet over each other in your mind so its a bird in a cage as choosing either option means that you chose both. But I don't know what significance it has besides that, its a good way to identify YOUR Elizabeth though.
Why does Elizabeth have powers? Just... Why? She wasn't a test tube baby she is Booker's biological daughter. Her powers are siphoned off to fuel what? (I'm guessing this has an explanation I couldn't find. The time/space machine? But they wouldn't of been able to make the time machine to be able to GET her if that was the case). She has crazy god-like powers. Its not like just a little telepathic which I can buy that with no explanation Just she's a mutant like X-men and she can do stuff, that'd be fine.BUT she has all the powers to manipulate the universe and create tears and I really don't know why. That's too much power to not have a detailed origin explanation.
The ending didn't make sense? Why would killing Booker end the cycle. He is ONE Booker but like 7 Elizabeths kill him. Isn't that inefficient? For every 1 Booker killed 6 more get away? The one corresponding to all those 6 other Elizabeths. or they already killed theirs and hate Booker so much, because he STILL IS BOOKER, that they had to watch him die (again?). When she brought him to that time at the baptism, everyone disappeared including the Priest! How is she still at the same point in time that she needs to kill Booker at? Why doesn't she kill every Booker that come out as Comstock? Why does she have to kill the Booker that allows her to be a father who doesn't sell her (with a lot of debt mind you but I doubt anyone else wants to buy his baby). Killing 1 Booker at the pivotal point of becoming both might close some gaps, but remember she has to keep killing Bookers forever as there are an infinite number of Bookers and judging by the ending the ones that are done come to watch they don't free up as they kill. Some even disappeared. Weird the middle one doesn't disappear(?) Since its not even the Elizabeth you go through the game with No bird/cage neck-bracelet. Booker also says "Who are you" to the first one he sees in the middle recognizing she's not even his Elizabeth. So my point is, instead of being free or even disappearing, she is killing Booker for eternity. Since there are an infinite number of words if the title is to believed or just a million million if Elizabeth is to be believed. If that's the case it can be assumed all the Elizabeths kill all the Bookers at the same time and it IS closed. A separate issue I have with the ending is that she kills the POST GAME booker. Not the PRE-GAME booker/comstock possibility that they were talking about. Since when did his body merge with other Bookers? He isn't disorientated in the way of merging memories so he isn't an amalgam of every Booker in the universe (meaning 1 kill to remove all bookers). Elizabeth sees all time and space so its to believe her judgement is to be trusted but, no priest or ppl like the real time happened. Just that same location she kills post-game booker. This also doesn't do anything to the bioshock 1,2 universe or any other one where the main guy isn't also the villain so I'm guessing a lot of worlds and this is NOT the end all perfect solution afterall?
Funny stuff. Slate says he knows Booker from the war. He also says he knows COMSTOCK. He knows comstock is lying about doing the battles he claims to have done. So this would imply he knows Booker is comstock? Is that why he fights Booker and is suicidal? But in the other reality he teams up with booker to fight... Comstock. Just a light issue thats why I say it here, it might not even be an issue. Elizabeth's random actions come in at bad times sometimes. Like something big will happen and Immediately after she will yawn, or sigh. That took me out of the experience a bit. She didn't wait 1 second to get bored. I'm sure it happened during other people's playthough. A very inappropriate yawn. Hope they patch the game so it happens less frequently and especially not right after a pre-determined game sequence.
Weird main char deaths are across dimensions. Slate dies in universe 1 (or goes to jail and can't speak "a fate worse than death"), this is first one player plays in, so does chen. then they jump Chen is alive but a dimensional zombie, they try to cure him, then realize they don't care as they jump a 3rd time to a 3rd world and see Chen died in the attack he helped start? (But they still didn't give the weapons to the Vox?) Fink and Kilroy die in the 3rd world. You could say him never making it stopped by songbird and the world destroyed by Elizabeth happens in the 3rd world you see and you beat the game in the last few scenes in world 4 when you're sent back to an earlier time inside Comstock house. Its possible this is just world 3 but altered in time. In which case after this you kill Comstock which is at LEAST not the same Comstock you've been going after the whole game, though it doesn't matter since any one Comstock is not enough for Elizabeth. The question is, which bosses are still alive and which are dead and which are dimensional zombies? LOL. Also, they never revisit the old worlds so what happens to the versions of them that were in the world they jumped to or the ones they jumped from where there is no Booker or Elizabeth anymore? That would make Comstock's domination vision INCORRECT in a lot of worlds. 2(or 3) for every 1 that its fulfilled. (There should be a Booker and Elizabeth (and within that, Booker Elizabeth would also be from a world not of that current one) in the world they jumped to) So... all the multiple versions also jumped to a 2nd and 3rd universe doing a kind of infinite shuffle to the left? No one ending up in the world they started on which was an alternate for them to begin with?
Final thoughts. I was disappointed you don't fight songbird :( Looked like the game was pointing towards a final big battle against a strong force satisfying end boss. Esp since Booker is told he never beats songbird (could of fit in a battle where you have to lose right there or at least a battle) so you'd need to fight him WITH Elizabeth's help. I thought it would of been cool if the neck-bracelet you choose for Elizabeth would branch the endings. Keep the bird or keep the cage would = Save Elizabeth or put her back in the cage(siphon). Songbird is shown in all the trailers and its like wow I can't wait to fight him. EVERYONE was waiting for it. and nope! Narrative-wise its ok but I wanted a boss battle, at least one. Somehow the game is ok without them but if I were to label any faults to the game it would be that. Why did songbird ave to die if she now has full control over him? Mercy killing? So songbird isn't a robot but a creature that needs air to live. So... What is songbird!!! lol.
After credits scene. wtf? he's not dead? He's pulled out of time? I have no clue, is Elizabeth dead? unborn? REborn? I guess the only thing that can be gleamed is that dying in that ending isn't as grim as it seems as that last scene is still possible. A possible explanation is that when you see the Elizabeth disappear, HE also disappears under the water and dead, but still gone from existence. So end credits is a time reset, he has his baby back (and debt lol). He shouldn't have any memories of any of this. Problem is some people say his baby was conceived (or just born) after the baptism?
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