The Giant Bomb GOTY podcasts complain thread.

Vinny is the best for keeping Sleepy Dogs on there.

XCOM over The Walking Dead?

The wrong kid died.

But yeah, those are both fantastic games and they're nearly impossible to compare.

My biggest complaint is a complete lack of Alex until the final half of the last podcast, he needs to be more involved in the deliberations, especially considering the amount of content he does for the site.

Brad calling some XBOX playing experiences "unplayable" simply because he has a baller gaming rig. I am homo for Brad, but it's become a real trend from him recently.

I am sick of indie games... and I am sick of big franchise games...I also hate handhelds...and I find female midget’s freaking sexy.

It feels weird that Syndicate is even on the list. That said, I haven't played it. Might have to now.

Far Cry 3 makes top 3 while being on 2 personal lists. Huh?

@Pr1mus said:

@Village_Guy said:

I think Mark of the Ninja deserved to be placed higher, that is my only complaint regarding the actual Game of the Year stuff.

A side note though, is that I fucking love stealth games, and Patrick annoyed me when he flat out said that stealth sucks and no-one said anything in the defense of stealth games. I love stealth games, they provide some of the most satisfying experiences, and I don't like when people dismiss stealth with the only reasoning that stealth - apparently - sucks.

Agreed and Jeff sorta shut him up on that yesterday by pointing him to some of his own favorite games like Mark of the Ninja and Dishonored. He really needs to drop it with this all or nothing attitude he has about certain games or genre. It always the greatest thing ever or complete garbage. There's never any middle ground. You can't keep gushing about Dishonored and Mark of the Ninja all year long and constantly dismiss the whole genre.

This year Patrick has raved about Dishonored, Mark Of the Ninja, and Hitman Blood Money, yet says that "stealth sucks" at every turn. Maybe he is conflicted.

I would complain that Journey should be higher but then I look at my list and I put it at six (although the games that beat it out on my list didn't even get onto their list for cutting in the first place, aka Guild Wars 2, Borderlands 2, Dragon's Dogma).

TWD should of taken it, and I had the horrible save bug occur, but XCOM is my number 2 game of the year so I can't say I care all that much.

Overall I think they did a great job with the top 10 this year.

Not having Dust in the top 10 is a crime !!!!!!!

Dissapointed that Dishonored didn't make a bigger impact on them. It was pretty high up on my personal list. Also Jeff was right Far Cry should have won man.

Think they gave Syndicate too much credit(i played it and felt there was better games worthy of being in the top 10 that they cut).  None of the other folks seemed to have played it except  for Jeff and he sort of brute forced it into the top 10.

Did Diablo 3 even get mentioned during GOTY?

The game got 5 stars, and besides the first couple launch days, the game is rock solid. I know people love to hate on Diablo 3 but it was a huge game that was universally acclaimed that got no mention. They considered Spaceteam and Frog Fractions but no mention of the biggest game of the year beside Halo and COD.

Also cutting Forza: Horizon because it's a racing game is retarded.

@zombie2011 said:

Did Diablo 3 even get mentioned during GOTY?

The game got 5 stars, and besides the first couple launch days, the game is rock solid. I know people love to hate on Diablo 3 but it was a huge game that was universally acclaimed that got no mention. They considered Spaceteam and Frog Fractions but no mention of the biggest game of the year beside Halo and COD.

Also cutting Forza: Horizon because it's a racing game is retarded.

Frog Fractions ranking better than Diablo 3 is crazy. I really don't like Diablo very much, but I have to admit that it's a big, beautiful and very well made game, just not my cup of tea. Frog Fractions is rubbish.

@Galiant said:

It feels weird that Syndicate is even on the list. That said, I haven't played it. Might have to now.

It's good, and i have no real issue with guys sneaking 1 personal choice onto the list (Syndicate, ZombiU, Mass Effect 3). To me the most baffling issue is Far Cry 3 inexplicably getting into the Top 3 talk while only being on 2 of their Top 10 lists. Add in the fact that FTL might have been completely ignored (while being on 4 lists) if Alex hadn't pointed it out is insane.

Bastion-esques level of.... what? Chem-trails time.

@cthomer5000 said:

@Pr1mus said:

@Village_Guy said:

I think Mark of the Ninja deserved to be placed higher, that is my only complaint regarding the actual Game of the Year stuff.

A side note though, is that I fucking love stealth games, and Patrick annoyed me when he flat out said that stealth sucks and no-one said anything in the defense of stealth games. I love stealth games, they provide some of the most satisfying experiences, and I don't like when people dismiss stealth with the only reasoning that stealth - apparently - sucks.

Agreed and Jeff sorta shut him up on that yesterday by pointing him to some of his own favorite games like Mark of the Ninja and Dishonored. He really needs to drop it with this all or nothing attitude he has about certain games or genre. It always the greatest thing ever or complete garbage. There's never any middle ground. You can't keep gushing about Dishonored and Mark of the Ninja all year long and constantly dismiss the whole genre.

This year Patrick has raved about Dishonored, Mark Of the Ninja, and Hitman Blood Money, yet says that "stealth sucks" at every turn. Maybe he is conflicted.

Because he talks like a gaf kiddie sometimes. It's fucking aggravating. We get it. You think stealth sucks (you're wrong, but your opinion).

He's just way too extreme calling games "dog shit" and things like that.

I just made an account just to comment on this;

First, i think a lot of them wouldn't have even considered walking dead for GOTY if it weren't for VGA/community outpouring. Its not even a game, its a movie with the illusion of choice. None of your choices matter. At all.

It has no gameplay at all. That alone should make it not eligible for GOTY.

During the day four recap, they basically appeared to be rewinding a movie and pressing the play button.

The other comment I have is about Xcom winning. Out of all the games this year, they pick that game? Its just a bad choice.

The new Xcom game featured bad AI, a cutscene after every shot that could not be disabled, a cutscene after every enemy being discovered. The AI of the enemies would not move at all until they were discovered, they would just sit huddled in the center of a building until the cutscene played. The last mission was nothing but a linear dungeon that was slapped together poorly with a systematic process of throwing enemies at you in a regimented process.

How could you say Xcom was a better game than any of the other games out this year? It clearly wasn't.

Sleeping Dogs, Syndicate, Farcry 3, and Mass Effect 3 were all better games than Xcom.

They all had better gameplay, story, presentation, graphics, amount of content, and more replayability.

There is nothing at all that is remarkable about the new Xcom and isn't that what this award is for?

I think I knew that XCOM would win, so far I've not been able to get into the game. I may come back to it in a few months.

@videogamesarenotart: So glad you made an account just to say that complete nonsense.

@Milkman said:

@videogamesarenotart: So glad you made an account just to say that complete nonsense.

Try to look at the Day 4 recap and say it doesn't look exactly like someone popped in a DVD and pressed the play button.

@Terramagi said:

I really enjoyed Patrick calling everybody retarded 12 year olds.

Y'know, considering his PSN name is MechaMothra.

Like, fucking really? Is self-awareness just not a thing these days?

Not to slag off Patrick but him insulting a bunch of people for their username, without even considering that maybe they, like him make that when they were young and got attached to it. Would he insult me too because of my dumb Dragon Ball Z username here? I like Patrick and think he is a great boon to the site but such harsh snap judgement irked me.

I enkoyed the podcast. A bit of a bummer that The Walking Dead was not fought for more by Vinny or Patrick. I bet they could of got it to win with Alex. Glad that Vinny got Sleeping Dogs on the list. Journey is an easy top 5 game. Jeff was super sneaky with that list. He was able to keep Fez and Far Cry 3 higher then I bet they would of been.

@videogamesarenotart: Welcome to the community dude. Way to make an entrance though, creating an account just to tell the crew how wrong they are, seems a bit odd. But it's ok, you don't have to agree with them. Everyone has their own personal lists for this years best game. The Walking Dead, Sleeping Dogs and XCOM pretty much shares first place in my book. They are very different from each other, but fantastic games in their own way.

@videogamesarenotart said:

Sleeping Dogs, Syndicate, Farcry 3, and Mass Effect 3 were all better games than Xcom.

Four games where you are a dude (sometimes a lady) shooting things? How original.

@zudthespud: if you want to try to ignore all the valid points I raised then go right ahead.

@videogamesarenotart: Welcome to the site, I think the more you start learning about the site you'll realize that their choices are very much driven by personal tastes and if you had been following them through the year it was pretty damn obvious that X-Com and The Walking Dead would be their 2 top picks. It doesn't really matter if some game was "objectively" better or worse, these were the games they enjoyed the most this year. I can completely understand if you disagree with their tastes though, but that's just how this site works.

I think this year's GOTY went pretty well, and it was all pretty entertaining. I think their top three games were spot on, XCOM is a damn worthy winner and I agree that it deserved to beat The Walking Dead, and Journey being in the top five is also fitting. It's just weird to me to see the rest of the top ten include several games I have zero interest in, like Fez, Syndicate, and ZombiU.

My biggest complaint would probably be them cutting Forza Horizon because it's a driving game. I know that GOTY deliberations have always been biased against genres like racing games, sports games, and strategy games, but this one bugged me because Jeff and Ryan were both very passionate about it but let Patrick cut it for no reason other than it's a driving game, but yet they let Jeff brute force Syndicate onto the list when only he was willing to fight for it. He did put up a pretty good fight for it, though - I'd forgotten the game was made by Starbreeze, I probably would be into it if I had friends and could play co-op games. But for them to dismiss a "genre game" in 2012, when their top two games were a turn-based strategy game and a freaking adventure game, seems messed up to me.

Weird year for games, and I think the GOTY reflected that, but still some damn good stuff this year.

@videogamesarenotart said:

@zudthespud: if you want to try to ignore all the valid points I raised then go right ahead.

It's just opinions. The editors went through a rigorous process discussing all of the games you listed and came to a compromised list they all agreed with. It's not like they all sat there having a circlejerk about how perfect The Walking Dead and XCOM are, quite the opposite.

There's no need to be upset about what six men on the internet say about games. My GOTY is Journey but I don't care they only put that 5th.

@Ares42 said:

@videogamesarenotart: "objectively" better

people always use that phrase when they want to argue something irrationally

it is not "objectively" better. Its a point of fact that the xcom remake was not up to the standards of the aforementioned games

@Ares42: Eh, I'm not sure I thought those two games would necessarily beat Far Cry 3 and Journey, but I knew XCOM v. Walking Dead was a significant part of the GOTY conversation.

I'm blown away Fez made #4, in a way that makes me really, really happy. I guess that I think it's weird Zombi U beat Sleeping Dogs, but that's not really here nor there.

The only statements they've made throughout these delibs that I felt were outright kind of wrong are these:

1) Dust: An Elysian Tail has pretty awesome gameplay, but its story post-twist is extremely generic, Disney-esque, and flat. I felt like it completely dropped the ball on the promising premise they'd developed. Maybe it's because I'm familiar with The Witcher 2 (a game that I think totally fails in terms of gameplay) but the story in Dust was a pretty massive fart noise to me. Not to mention the fact that it was waaaaay too easy to find literally everything in the game (it isn't 100%, it's a 100+%, but I don't remember how much.)

I like Dust, and though it missed my own Top 10, I think it's a neat game, and I think it's worth talking about. Just not for the story. Or the cutscene animation, actually. The two times that game cuts to FMV animation for major story revelations (the twist and the finale) are easily the ugliest pieces of art in the game. Like, holy shit.

2. Stealth games haven't ever really "sucked," and Mark of the Ninja is too easy to really be the "perfection" of stealth games. Yes, it makes it so that you can feel like a badass. It's a power fantasy of a stealth game. You're absurdly powerful, with so much information presented that failure is entirely the fault of the player rather than the cleverness of the game. I got totally bored playing Mark of the NInja by the end, and I don't feel like the special objectives made the game more interesting or challenging.

Mark of the Ninja's a fine stealth game, but to call it the "savior of a genre" the year Dishonored, Far Cry 3, Hotline Miami, and Hitman: Absolution all introduced stealth-like successes as follow-ups to last year's Batman: Arkham City and Skyrim? The previous year's Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood AND Splinter Cell: Conviction? 2009's Arkham Asylum, Assassin's Creed II, and Uncharted 2, let alone 2008's Metal Gear Solid 4*, Far Cry 2, and Fallout 3? Hell, even Sierra 117 of Halo 3, All Ghillied Up in CoD 4, the original Assassin's Creed, and sneaking up on dudes in BioShock and Crysis in 2007? Stealth's been fucking awesome for most of the generation.

If you think Mark of the Ninja is rad, that's fine. But understand that stealth has been rad for several years, and Mark of the Ninja is not the "savior of stealth gaming." You can argue that those previous games aren't all "pure stealth," and I'd agree that statement is true for several of those games, but I also don't think Ninja is "pure stealth" in that sense, either. And you can make fun of Metal Gear or Splinter Cell for "not holding up" (I haven't played the old Splinter Cell games since release, but I think MGS holds up shockingly well) but the same goes for third-person shooters a láRE4, horror games a la RE1 and SH2, and so on. Games get old. That doesn't mean the genre sucked at the time, and it doesn't mean it sucks now.

Now then. Nooooow then.

I don't think either of those are problems exclusive to the GB crew. This is more my general GOTY grievances being aired. And I disagree that XCOM is accessible, but that's a conversation rather than a "whaaaaaaaat are you talking about" like those two issues.

*I really don't like MGS4, but it's relevant in the context of a conversation about stealth games not sucking. Also, the GB crew definitely considered MGS4 a gameplay revelation for the series. It's especially relevant in this conversation about GB "missteps," seeing as how they lauded its gameplay upon release, regardless of what their opinions on that gameplay might be now.

Overall I feel satisfied with the discussions this year. Diablo 3 maybe deserved at least a name drop during the top 10 discussion, but that's really my only gripe. XCOM deserved to win. The Walking Dead deserved second place. All is right in the Giant Bomb world.

@videogamesarenotart said:

@Ares42 said:

@videogamesarenotart: "objectively" better

people always use that phrase when they want to argue something irrationally

it is not "objectively" better. Its a point of fact that the xcom remake was not up to the standards of the aforementioned games

But it doesn't matter, they enjoyed the game more than any other game this year anyways. I mean last year they put Skyrim on top which was a completely fucking mess. That's just how this site works.

@Ares42:

"its my opinion therefor it cannot be criticized"

I'll give it to them and say they are completely misguided because they've never played Xcom before in their lives, but still there is a standard they've perpetuated that it does not live up to.

@Little_Socrates: I'm with you on dust. I was always surprised how much Brad likes the story. While playing Dust, I seen it as a throwaway element. Sure it had a serious topic, but it was barely explored, the character were all shallow, fidgit was not funny, the character animations and design were poor as was the acting. So no emotion ever came thought making me not care at all about any of them or the world of Dust. I'm amazed Brad found the ending resonant. You are right about tone, it had a serious topic, but it was handled with no weight.

@videogamesarenotart said:

I just made an account just to comment on this;

First, i think a lot of them wouldn't have even considered walking dead for GOTY if it weren't for VGA/community outpouring. Its not even a game, its a movie with the illusion of choice. None of your choices matter. At all.

It has no gameplay at all. That alone should make it not eligible for GOTY.

During the day four recap, they basically appeared to be rewinding a movie and pressing the play button.

The other comment I have is about Xcom winning. Out of all the games this year, they pick that game? Its just a bad choice.

The new Xcom game featured bad AI, a cutscene after every shot that could not be disabled, a cutscene after every enemy being discovered. The AI of the enemies would not move at all until they were discovered, they would just sit huddled in the center of a building until the cutscene played. The last mission was nothing but a linear dungeon that was slapped together poorly with a systematic process of throwing enemies at you in a regimented process.

How could you say Xcom was a better game than any of the other games out this year? It clearly wasn't.

Sleeping Dogs, Syndicate, Farcry 3, and Mass Effect 3 were all better games than Xcom.

They all had better gameplay, story, presentation, graphics, amount of content, and more replayability.

There is nothing at all that is remarkable about the new Xcom and isn't that what this award is for?

This is not a fair statement at all. Patrick, Vinny, and Ryan have all been very high on this game since at least episode 3 and discussed it a ton on the podcasts. Alex gave it 5 stars when episode 5 was released and he could review the entire series. In the Walking Dead forum a lot of us were speculating that it would be a definite contender for the sites overall number one weeks before the the VGAs.

If anything the VGA win gave them more of an excuse to not push super hard for it. I think if that had not happened we might have seen a more spirited argument for it being #1. They all liked XCOM though, so it's not hard to understand why they all basically went "ok.. im cool with XCOM."

@Ares42: Eh, I'm not sure I thought those two games would necessarily beat Far Cry 3 and Journey, but I knew XCOM v. Walking Dead was a significant part of the GOTY conversation.

I'm blown away Fez made #4, in a way that makes me really, really happy. I guess that I think it's weird Zombi U beat Sleeping Dogs, but that's not really here nor there.

The only statements they've made throughout these delibs that I felt were outright kind of wrong are these:

1) Dust: An Elysian Tail has pretty awesome gameplay, but its story post-twist is extremely generic, Disney-esque, and flat. I felt like it completely dropped the ball on the promising premise they'd developed. Maybe it's because I'm familiar with The Witcher 2 (a game that I think totally fails in terms of gameplay) but the story in Dust was a pretty massive fart noise to me. Not to mention the fact that it was waaaaay too easy to find literally everything in the game (it isn't 100%, it's a 100+%, but I don't remember how much.)

I like Dust, and though it missed my own Top 10, I think it's a neat game, and I think it's worth talking about. Just not for the story. Or the cutscene animation, actually. The two times that game cuts to FMV animation for major story revelations (the twist and the finale) are easily the ugliest pieces of art in the game. Like, holy shit.

2. Stealth games haven't ever really "sucked," and Mark of the Ninja is too easy to really be the "perfection" of stealth games. Yes, it makes it so that you can feel like a badass. It's a power fantasy of a stealth game. You're absurdly powerful, with so much information presented that failure is entirely the fault of the player rather than the cleverness of the game. I got totally bored playing Mark of the NInja by the end, and I don't feel like the special objectives made the game more interesting or challenging.

Mark of the Ninja's a fine stealth game, but to call it the "savior of a genre" the year Dishonored, Far Cry 3, Hotline Miami, and Hitman: Absolution all introduced stealth-like successes as follow-ups to last year's Batman: Arkham City and Skyrim? The previous year's Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood AND Splinter Cell: Conviction? 2009's Arkham Asylum, Assassin's Creed II, and Uncharted 2, let alone 2008's Metal Gear Solid 4*, Far Cry 2, and Fallout 3? Hell, even Sierra 117 of Halo 3, All Ghillied Up in CoD 4, the original Assassin's Creed, and sneaking up on dudes in BioShock and Crysis in 2007? Stealth's been fucking awesome for most of the generation.

If you think Mark of the Ninja is rad, that's fine. But understand that stealth has been rad for several years, and Mark of the Ninja is not the "savior of stealth gaming." You can argue that those previous games aren't all "pure stealth," and I'd agree that statement is true for several of those games, but I also don't think Ninja is "pure stealth" in that sense, either. And you can make fun of Metal Gear or Splinter Cell for "not holding up" (I haven't played the old Splinter Cell games since release, but I think MGS holds up shockingly well) but the same goes for third-person shooters a láRE4, horror games a la RE1 and SH2, and so on. Games get old. That doesn't mean the genre sucked at the time, and it doesn't mean it sucks now.

Now then. Nooooow then.

I don't think either of those are problems exclusive to the GB crew. This is more my general GOTY grievances being aired. And I disagree that XCOM is accessible, but that's a conversation rather than a "whaaaaaaaat are you talking about" like those two issues.

*I really don't like MGS4, but it's relevant in the context of a conversation about stealth games not sucking. Also, the GB crew definitely considered MGS4 a gameplay revelation for the series. It's especially relevant in this conversation about GB "missteps," seeing as how they lauded its gameplay upon release, regardless of what their opinions on that gameplay might be now.

Not really a complaint because who really cares but I thought it was funny how Brad was against giving praise to games that had issues on different platforms a year after he championed Skyrim so hard.

Frog Fractions is the joke I will never understand.

Only complaints I have are that games like Forza Hirizon and FTL got cut for games that only one of them like like zombiU and Syndicate. Other then that I'm fine with XCOM winning.

I've barely played XCOM, so I can't speak to that (just bought it yesterday). I was surprised to see Fez so high up, but once again, I haven't played it. Only game that I've actually played that I thought should have been higher was Sleeping Dogs.

"Hey guys, have you ever met Phil Fish? Isn't he cool? Shouldn't Phil Fish be on this list?"

It's almost like Patrick reads people's comments about him and then amplifies. The complaint has been he treats people who make indie games like flawless auteurs and doesn't really judge games on their merits as games, he judged them by what he knows of the person behind them. His argument for Fez is that "it encapsulates Phil Fish like no other game!" Maybe he changes it up, I'm only an hour in. But GRRAWW

I'm glad they've actually been able to talk about Dust without saying "it was made by one guy!" because that has dominated every single conversation about that game. I don't care who made the game or how it got made, I just care about the game based on its own quality.

I'm glad Alex was the voice of reason against Fez. I will never understand why so many people love it.

@Terramagi said:

XCOM was a bad game, and only gets a pass because "holy shit it's a fucking TBS in the year 2012".

The game mechanics barely function, entire sections of the gameplay are irrelevant (who the fuck ever uses SHIVs or interception after the first month), and the aliens are literally static spawns that don't move, except when they decide to teleport from waypoint to waypoint, often into the middle of your squad.

Also, Syndicate shouldn't be on that list. It's not even the same genre.

UH, what?

Aliens definitely move, I have had a few move into my range of site on the alien turn a ton of times. I feel like you probably didn't play too much of it.

*EDIT*

Checking you achievements, you seem to have played a bit of XCOM this year, hah. I just don't see where you are coming from when you say XCOM is a bad game. My point on alien movement still stands though/

I for one welcome our new XCOM GOTY overlord.

Max Payne 3 should have been number 10 on the list. I'm sorry but it just should've.

The back 7 on the list seems to include 1 fave from each main guy seemingly to prevent bloodshed, the order of the games makes no sense though. Jeff is the only person who played Syndicate and it's #6? Sleeping Dogs was adored by at least 2 or 3 guys and it's bringing up the rear??

I kind of agree that XCOM should be GOTY - But man those graphics are bland. Look's like a 2008 game.

Hopefully they shader that shit up for the 2014 next gen XCOM.

@zudthespud said:

@videogamesarenotart said:

Sleeping Dogs, Syndicate, Farcry 3, and Mass Effect 3 were all better games than Xcom.

Four games where you are a dude (sometimes a lady) shooting things? How original.

In XCOM, you're a dude (sometimes a lady) shooting things.