Japan is falling behind?

According to game designer Keiji Inafune of Megaman and Street Fighter fame, Japan is about 5 years behind western developers in terms of innovation in game design due to dwindling investments in the industry. This comes at a time when (a month ago) it was reported that video game sales worldwide fell about 10% from $910.3 million to $818.9 million, the lowest in 4 yrs.
What do you guys think? You agree with Mr. Inafune?

The games have not had mass appeal in this generation. 
 
The one thing I absolutely hate about Japanese games is the effete leads. 

On a personal level, I know that my taste in video game have changed in the last 4-5 years. I've gone from owning all the major consoles in the previous generation with a preference for JRPGs to mainly gaming on an Xbox 360 with a preference for "Western RPGs" and multi-player shooters that I can play online with friends and co-workers. I still have my DS for the occasional JRPG but I'm really more into pick-up and play puzzles like Picross 3D when I'm on the go.

So is the problem really that Japanese developers have failed to innovate this generation? Maybe the general tastes of gamers have changed now that there are more options available to us.

Whenever I see a Japanese game it does seem that way. (five years behind)  Not always, but most of them.

Another one of these posts. I saw this same exact post in 2 other topics. 
 
Anyways, we need games to be different that what us Americans have. If everything was the same then no one would play games ever again.

They started falling behind last generation, now it's worse.

Oh look, its this terrible thread again.

How is that a question?

Japanese games used to be great, but as games began to modernize and shape up into a billion-valued market where big titles cost several tens of millions dollars to make a game, Japanese developers began to lose their edge. It also does not help that western gamers have began to grow a dislike of Japanese developers, particularly in the JRPG genre, where innovation is sorely lacking and voice actors all have to voice 12 year olds or something. *shrugs*

I think a lot of the Japanese developers just didn't know where to go with this generation of consoles. Final Fantasy XIII is evidence of that.

No they are not behind they are just being dumb because they expect the west to eat their shit up. and guess what. WE HAVE DIFFERENT TASTES IN GAME. SURPRISE!!! Japan should make games for japan the us should make games for the us.

How many of these threads do we have?

" I think a lot of the Japanese developers just didn't know where to go with this generation of consoles. Final Fantasy XIII is evidence of that. "

I think you see a lot of game design not translating well into "western" gaming but you can see that when comparing Europe to North American and the games they develop and purchase. 
Are they 5 years behind? Perhaps in some cases, but one could argue the games NA is known for producing isn't as caught up as Japanese games considering the top selling games are FPS.  
Late adoption of online I think factors the most heavily on the lagging behind the rest of the industry.

" @Faint said:

" I think a lot of the Japanese developers just didn't know where to go with this generation of consoles. Final Fantasy XIII is evidence of that. "

This. Lord knows how much I hate that game. Not because of what it is, but what it should have been. "

I haven noticed that my affinity for Japanese games has lessened.
 
But while many Japanese games have seen dwindling success in Western markets this generation, plenty of powerhouse franchises developed over here continue to not sell well in the East. There's two sides to it. I think you hear more about Japanese developed games not catching on worldwide simply because the market is bigger in places like the United States.

persona!

This exact thread exists on page 2. Bother to do half a second of research before making redundant-ass threads, thanks.

" @Fjordson: Of course...which is why Japanese game houses are slowly but surely dying. Development costs are skyrocketing, and with little to no innovation and extremely niche products coming out of Japan, it's no wonder they're falling further and further behind. Western developers don't need to have their games sell well in Japan in order to be successful. 
 
If the Japanese game development industry wants to stay alive, then they seriously need to make their games appeal to a wider audience and not just to Japan and a very small percentage of Western consumers. "

It looks like they're trying. Platinum Games, in particular, tend to have games that are too western for western gamers. It's like Japanese developers, in some cases, try TOO hard to be more western. Look at Resident Evil 5, for example.  
 
Innovation isn't everything though. My beloved Mirror's Edge didn't exactly light a fire on any sales charts, and that game was awesome!....or, at least, I thought so.

" It looks like they're trying. Platinum Games, in particular, tend to have games that are too western for western gamers. It's like Japanese developers, in some cases, try TOO hard to be more western. Look at Resident Evil 5, for example.  
 
Innovation isn't everything though. My beloved Mirror's Edge didn't exactly light a fire on any sales charts, and that game was awesome!....or, at least, I thought so. "

At least alot of Japanese game houses are still bringing the crazy. The only things I can think of that the West has brought to videogames in the last 5 years is the colour brown and a cover system.

" At least alot of Japanese game houses are still bringing the crazy. The only things I can think of that the West has brought to videogames in the last 5 years is the colour brown and a cover system. "

Argh, not this again. Keiji Inafune is hardly going to be unbiased when he refers to a game industry in which he's a participant. Perhaps he's goggle-eyed at the kind of sales figures 'the West' gets, but it's completely idiotic to compare the two regions. Let's end these threads and poorly thought-out comparisons once and for all. Unless you know the Japanese industry first-hand (ie. can afford to import consoles and games and can understand the language) and offer a meaningful comparison between the output of the two regions, it's just random opinion. Sure, we can talk about the differences between the games we have access to, but this is a restricted sample which doesn't entitle us to talk about 'Japan' or its 'industry' in sweeping terms.
Based on what I've played, I see no reason to consider Japan behind, especially for such a relatively small population.

In terms of story-telling, especially in regards to the interactive element and character development, the difference between Japanese and Western is pretty noticeable.  Compare something like Mass Effect to Final Fantasy XIII and there are very stark differences.  Again, perhaps this has to do with the different cultures, but considering many in Japan seem to be agreeing, I don't think this can simply be dismissed.
 
Games like Pokemon or Monster Hunter are more good examples, where they're perfectly content to release exactly the same thing over and over with nominal improvements.  They don't have to change the core gameplay, but even things like making them more dynamic or even free roaming would greatly enhance the experience.  Having to accept "quests" just to be able to go out into the field in MH for example, just to collect mushrooms is frankly.. antiquated.  The game would really benefit from having a more immersive, fluid style.

Yes, I agree. A lot of Japanese developers stick to old conventions, and give off the impression that they simply do not want to acknowledge that Western developers have improved upon, or done away, with that old school of thought. And, in my opinion, it's often little things that could easily be fixed, but for one reason or another, they simply don't do. If I had to take a guess, I would say that it's because they are trying to cater to their own audience first (Japan), and the Western second, and they are afraid of alienating them if they change those little things. 
 
Those are just assumptions of course. There are plenty of other theories one could come up with, but unless we get the answer from the developers themselves, we will never know for sure. I just hope that they don't stick to their old ways until it's too late to change, and the Japanese gaming industry goes under completely. It would be a real shame to see those that pretty much laid the groundwork for gaming to wither and die.

" @mutha3:  Which two genres are you referring to? "

" @mutha3:  Which two genres are you referring to? "

I'd say he's talking about FPSs and RPGs and he'd be right.  e focus leads to more and more renditions of the same themes over and over.  "

There is a lot of those genres to be sure, but I think you're selling Western devs as a whole a bit short.

" There is a lot of those genres to be sure, but I think you're selling Western devs as a whole a bit short. "

I'm just going to repost what I wrote in the earlier thread... 
 

- PSP: 30,761 [DOWN] 4,078 (11.71%) 
- PS3: 19,907  [DOWN] 2,320 (10.44%) 

- DSi LL: 19,076  [UP] 147 (0.78%)
- DSi: 16,345  [DOWN] 623 (3.67%)
- Wii: 15,031  [DOWN] 1,049 (6.52%)
- DS Lite: 4,328  [UP] 289 (7.16%)
- Xbox 360: 2,915  [UP] 55 (1.92%)
- PS2: 1,363  [DOWN] 7 (0.51%)
- PSP Go: 809 [DOWN] 118 (12.73%)

• What jumps out at you when looking at the most recent hardware sales chart? If you answered the weird domination of the handheld consoles, you've hit the mark. Most informed people know that Monster Hunter and the portable Dragon Quest games have been runaway successes in Japan. Small living quarters and excellent public transportation are contributing factors to foster a large portable gaming culture. Gaming on cell phones and handhelds is probably at its finest (or worst, depending on how you look at things) in Japan.
• The PSP launched in Japan on December 12th, 2004. The original brick Nintendo DS launched on December 2nd, 2004. It is now 2010. That 5 year time period fits precisely the gap Inafune sees between Japan and Western developers. Now factor in the cost of developing for the current-gen consoles, the close compatibility between PSP and the DS to their big brother counterparts (the PS2 and the Gamecube respectively) and the aforementioned popularity of portable gaming in Japan...

And yet another thread full of double standards and people who don't actually have a clue of what they're talking about. Gotta love the forums!

Just look at Nintendo. Where has all of their innovation been?

 Man the Japan is doomed threads are getting boring on the internet lately not enough drama in them now. The Marcus Fenix club must have finally hunted down and killed off the last Weeaboo.

Fuck that, the game I'm waiting on in the future is Catherine. It looks so crazy and original. There's nothing in the western market like that 

 
I think that Japan is stuck in the past time,kinda like you said.The only games they're making right now is mostly sequels to other games.Such as New Super Mario Bros,Tensai Persona etc.

Isn't Japan a country? And isn't the west like three continents?

" I'm  And you get one side of the world that is playing games on (basically) the previous, "obsolete" generation of consoles with rampant piracy issues and the other side playing expensive, million dollar budgeted games. And frankly, neither side is coming out a winner.     "

Japan is about 5 years behind western developers in terms of innovation in game design due to dwindling investments in the industry.

i love japanese games but i have to admit they have been putting out the same stuff for a while. failure to innovate i'd say.

I remember reading that most japenes game devs hate ripping each-other off, which i think stunts them. the way western devs work is by improving little by little on an each others ideas until you get something really good. Japanese devs get an innovative idea once in a blue moon and instead of innovating they itterate, making  a bazillion of sequels with barely any actual improvements to the original game, just look at most big Japanese series. 
 
so for example:
  western:
doom-> quake -> duke-> serious sam   
 
eastern:
pokemon->every sequel 
monster hunter-> every sequel
dynasty warriors->every sequel
 
 while their are exceptions to this rule I  think this is right for the most part.

 TL,DR:
western devs: innovate
eastern devs: itterate

TL,DR:western devs:itterate eastern devs: itterate "  

Take the case of third-party publisher Capcom, whose stock rose to a five-year high in September, 2007 due to increased support for the Wii, according to the company.

At the time, its CFO spoke enthusiastically about Capcom's Wii portfolio -- which had doubled from three to six games -- and was poised to publish Zack & Wiki: Quest For Barbaros' Treasure  the next month.

But Chris Kramer, Capcom senior director of communications and community, said even though "it was one of the highest-rated Wii games and was beloved by the media, it sold abysmally -- about 120,000 units in 26 months -- for no apparent reason.

Similarly, Japanese publisher Marvelous Entertainment focused heavily on Wii and PSP releases in 2009, but the company found a  considerable difference  in its success on the two platforms. Four out of its five PSP games in its first fiscal half were profitable while three of its four Wii games during the same period lost money.

 According to Kramer, "If you're not Nintendo, it does seem harder to make money on the Wii today compared to the PS3 and the Xbox 360. It's a very tough market to crack and is ever-shifting." 

Jan 8th 2010, source: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/4237/thirdparty_publishers_react_to_.php

As publishers, I suppose "where it counts", they're fine financially (Nintendo, Capcom, Sega, et al and et cetera). Idea and creatively-wise, they're too set in their ways and are clearly receding. They keep it up, and they really will be in trouble before too long.