This Modern Warfare 2 PC Situation Is Getting Crazy

Enlighten me. Why is PC gaming dying? Could it be because PC sales aren't lucrative in a market when most PC players use their cash to play World of Warcraft and nothing else? Could it be because PC sales make up an increasingly small percentage of a game's sales? Maybe it's that it costs too much money to play games on the PC, and the ever increasingly technology wars of this decade have kept the great majority of PC players from being able to run games well?  The PC is becoming less  viable as a gaming platform and a revenue stream for traditional game developers, and only a few companies in recent times have found ways to be profitable on the PC. You'd have better luck making an iPhone game looking to make dough than the average PC game? And so many people on the PC feel they DESERVE features. They DESERVE servers and they DESERVE mods. Consumers don't deserve anything. You buy something, or you don't. End of story. You have every right to boycott the game. And if you're looking to make your voices heard with your dollars, not buying the game is exactly the way to do it.  But I'm not really interested in what YOU can do with a video game. I'm not interested in seeing how YOU, the user, will make MW2 your game. I want to play MW2's game. And I honestly don't think MW2 could have come out with the old feature set intact and do what, at it's core, the game is supposed to do: make a profit for the publisher. "

" @Andheez said:

" I am in the gave up PC multiplayer because there are too many mods/rules/individual quirks that ruin the balance  game developers spend so much time creating.  But that said, I am not sure if it is possible, but could they support both methods?  I don't see why they cant cater to both sides of the issue. "

is it really that hard to find a non-modded game? ive never had problems with it. im starting to think console fanboys are just pulling straws out of their ass with this. "

" Charlton Heston as Taylor in Planet of The Apes RULES! I never really noticed what an evil laugh that was though.. LOL! "

I say fuck yes to IWNET, I hate Server Browsers. Fuck mods and all that shit. Play the game as it was meant to be played.

It actually makes me more likely to buy it on PC. I hate scrolling through servers and prefer to let the matchmaking work for me. They have said custom content and modes will be available in private matches, so the end result is almost the same.

Nerd rage killed the internet.  =\

PC players UNITE. Fight the system.
 
Maybe not in the US, but worldwide the PC represents a lot in CoD.

" Play the game as it was meant to be played. "

Can't we just ignore MAN_FLANNEL now. He is obliviously just trying to start a flamewar, just look at his previous posts.

" @MAN_FLANNEL:  I dont think he said that. i mean, im pretty sure i can read, it looked like he said that everyone with a Flashed Xbox360 will have a Pirate copy... Nothing about 16 million in there at all. "

" @MAN_FLANNEL: Who said anything about 16 million? You cant mesh together the numbers since these people own both pirated copies of COD4 AND HALO3 at the same time (yes that is possible! can you imagine?!?!)And please dont ignore the seeding part, that was the most important point you fucking idiot. "

" Can't we just ignore MAN_FLANNEL now. He is obliviously just trying to start a flamewar, just look at his previous posts. "

LMFAO!!! Who makes a bumper stick for a video game? lol

" @gike987 said:

" Can't we just ignore MAN_FLANNEL now. He is obliviously just trying to start a flamewar, just look at his previous posts. "

this has nothing to do with a flamewar... this has to do with someone saying that half of all 360 games are pirated, which is completely false. "

" @MAN_FLANNEL: Who said anything about 16 million? You cant mesh together the numbers since these people own both pirated copies of COD4 AND HALO3 at the same time (yes that is possible! can you imagine?!?!)And please dont ignore the seeding part, that was the most important point you fucking idiot. "

" @XenoZak said:

" @MAN_FLANNEL:  I dont think he said that. i mean, im pretty sure i can read, it looked like he said that everyone with a Flashed Xbox360 will have a Pirate copy... Nothing about 16 million in there at all. "

meant to say 10 million, which he thinks there are more of in a previous post...confused half of 360s (16 million) with the copies of Halo 3 sold (10 million) (@mhkjtha said:

" @MAN_FLANNEL: Who said anything about 16 million? You cant mesh together the numbers since these people own both pirated copies of COD4 AND HALO3 at the same time (yes that is possible! can you imagine?!?!)And please dont ignore the seeding part, that was the most important point you fucking idiot. "

10 million "

" PC players UNITE. Fight the system.  Maybe not in the US, but worldwide the PC represents a lot in CoD. "

" @Winternet said:

" PC players UNITE. Fight the system.  Maybe not in the US, but worldwide the PC represents a lot in CoD. "

Don't forget NVIDIA, ATI, Creative, Intel and all those other big companies that make a sizeable chunk of profit from PC gamers. NVIDIA are the reason the map packs for MW were released on PC for free. "

" @Zatoichi_Sanjuro said:

" @Winternet said:

" PC players UNITE. Fight the system.  Maybe not in the US, but worldwide the PC represents a lot in CoD. "

Don't forget NVIDIA, ATI, Creative, Intel and all those other big companies that make a sizeable chunk of profit from PC gamers. NVIDIA are the reason the map packs for MW were released on PC for free. "

Really? How? maybe i should stop being biased against them :\ (ati fanboy) "

" @mhkjtha said:

" @MAN_FLANNEL: Who said anything about 16 million? You cant mesh together the numbers since these people own both pirated copies of COD4 AND HALO3 at the same time (yes that is possible! can you imagine?!?!)And please dont ignore the seeding part, that was the most important point you fucking idiot. "

ignoring the seeding?  that is the way the game is transferred... so what? thats one of two ways people can a copy of the game.  did you go to all the torrent sites and count all of the downloads, and come up with 10 million? "

I know what to do.
 
 
This thread is worse than Hitler!

"I know what to do.   This thread is worse than Hitler! "

" @Chainblast said:

" The PC is an open platform, but if a developer starts removing features like the ability to mod, dedicated servers, LAN support, then requires you to connect through their custom network (likely requiring an account), one can create a closed platform for one or more games. Aside the reduction in freedom, it just adds more junk between you and your experience, more chances for something to go wrong. No alternatives. Matchmaking is a great tool, no question there, but it should be left at that, a tool. Not a requirement. Features that make PC gaming appealing are being stripped away one by one. It's one thing if those features cost more to implement or require management, but they don't. It's about creating a closed platform to have complete and utter control over how you use their product. Some might argue they have the right, they made it. I don't. So long as you're not performing illegally, the consumer has the right to do with as they please any product they purchase.   The practice of closed platforms is actually anti-capitalist, thus anti-American. The idea of monopolizing a product so no competition can exist runs contradictory to what American business values are SUPPOSED to be. Car manufactures don't tell customers what tires they can use or what oil companies they're allowed to purchase fuel from. Intel doesn't dictate to consumers what brand names are required for use with their processors. Starbucks doesn't tell people they can only be served drinks in cups/mugs displaying their logo.  "

i agree with you on many points, but something small stood out:   Some might argue they have the right, they made it. I don't. So long as you're not performing illegally, the consumer has the right to do with as they please any product they purchase.  don't we as pc software buyers not have any real rights when it comes to software? aren't we are purchasing a license to play the game yet have no ownership of it and it can be pulled at any time deemed necessary by the legal holders? at least i imagine that's what all that small print on the license agreement says. "

the only people left commenting are the console kiddies that have no clue what this entire argument is about

" the only people left commenting are the console kiddies that have no clue what this entire argument is about "

" @Jackalofdeath said:

" the only people left commenting are the console kiddies that have no clue what this entire argument is about "

Saying 'console kiddie' instantly in-validates everything you say. "

" @Hitchenson said:

" @Jackalofdeath said:

" the only people left commenting are the console kiddies that have no clue what this entire argument is about "

Saying 'console kiddie' instantly in-validates everything you say. "

Just flag the idiotic trolls and move on. "

I think it's nice that Bowling has addressed the issue.  I still don't believe that IWNet will be better for PC gamers in the long run due to the fact that it seriously limits the idea of COMMUNITY.  On CoD4, I usually play on the HitMan or HEX servers, as I've built a community relationship with those doods.  Despite the fact that this will have a party system in it, you still won't have that same sense of community. 
 
Essentially, MW2 using IWNet instead of dedicated servers would be like trying to do World of Warcraft with matchmaking.  Also, how are they calculating skill level?  If it's with TrueSkill, then it's shoddy. 
 
I'm going to play the game on PC to at least check it out, but that's mainly because we'll be getting it at work anyways.  I'm sure that the game itself is pretty spectacular.  I just don't like the decisions that have been made.

" @belaraphon said:

" @Chainblast said:

" The PC is an open platform, but if a developer starts removing features like the ability to mod, dedicated servers, LAN support, then requires you to connect through their custom network (likely requiring an account), one can create a closed platform for one or more games. Aside the reduction in freedom, it just adds more junk between you and your experience, more chances for something to go wrong. No alternatives. Matchmaking is a great tool, no question there, but it should be left at that, a tool. Not a requirement. Features that make PC gaming appealing are being stripped away one by one. It's one thing if those features cost more to implement or require management, but they don't. It's about creating a closed platform to have complete and utter control over how you use their product. Some might argue they have the right, they made it. I don't. So long as you're not performing illegally, the consumer has the right to do with as they please any product they purchase.   The practice of closed platforms is actually anti-capitalist, thus anti-American. The idea of monopolizing a product so no competition can exist runs contradictory to what American business values are SUPPOSED to be. Car manufactures don't tell customers what tires they can use or what oil companies they're allowed to purchase fuel from. Intel doesn't dictate to consumers what brand names are required for use with their processors. Starbucks doesn't tell people they can only be served drinks in cups/mugs displaying their logo.  "

i agree with you on many points, but something small stood out:   Some might argue they have the right, they made it. I don't. So long as you're not performing illegally, the consumer has the right to do with as they please any product they purchase.  don't we as pc software buyers not have any real rights when it comes to software? aren't we are purchasing a license to play the game yet have no ownership of it and it can be pulled at any time deemed necessary by the legal holders? at least i imagine that's what all that small print on the license agreement says. "

Sadly yes. It's just not good business to dictate to your customers what they can do with the product they just handed $60 over for. Especially when what they want to do with the product is not demeaning or unlawful. It's more of a larger issue with the way the corporate world chooses to conduct themselves. Don't be surprised when in the near future every game bought (on console) requires activation via Live or PSN and is locked to the original account thereafter, prohibiting its resale and making conventional rentals not possible. It's already been talked about by business and industry figures, including Epic Games. Obviously this is a bit off topic, but I think many could agree the larger issue here is corporate attitude. Yes? "

" @MAN_FLANNEL said:

" @XenoZak said:

" @MAN_FLANNEL:  I dont think he said that. i mean, im pretty sure i can read, it looked like he said that everyone with a Flashed Xbox360 will have a Pirate copy... Nothing about 16 million in there at all. "

meant to say 10 million, which he thinks there are more of in a previous post...confused half of 360s (16 million) with the copies of Halo 3 sold (10 million) ( @mhkjtha said:

" @MAN_FLANNEL: Who said anything about 16 million? You cant mesh together the numbers since these people own both pirated copies of COD4 AND HALO3 at the same time (yes that is possible! can you imagine?!?!)And please dont ignore the seeding part, that was the most important point you fucking idiot. "

10 million "

Youre still ignoring my entire point. Maybe you shouldn't have brought it up again?  And saying that "half of all X game/games are pirated" is never correct in any sitation, because the amount of copies pirated doesnt represent the amount of extra copies that wouldve been sold if those people couldn't pirate the game.  Just in case you can't figure it out by yourself (which I have a feeling you won't, imbecile): A single person can and will pirate more games in a year than 10 people can buy in a year. "

This is retarded because matchmaking sucks, and half of what makes PC multilayer gaming so awesome is being able to play with people you like and building a community of people you like.

" @Hannibal said:

1. Every server's community is limited by the size of the server2. If you have a friend on a server and that server goes down, you cannot find that friend (unless you're on steam) 3. Since users are responsible for servers and the content, it can take a long time to find a decent server that is not empty that you can join and have a good ping with 4. If you have a friend, trying to join the same server is a pain in the ass, issues with connection and finding the server  All of these issues will be solved by a B.Net-like system. Really the only thing you lose is the ability to have custom rules and mods, which a great majority of players will never use. "

1. There are thousands of servers and thousands of communities. You are free to move to a different server at anytime. 2. "That server goes down" dedicated servers do not "go down", if they have maintenance or their is a tech issue it is extremely rare and you still have the thousands of other servers to go to. 3. Complete bullshit. The player count/ping/map/version are all instantly visible in the browser. 4. You don't play on PC. Simple as that. "

That or they work for our buddy Bobby from Activision.  Seriously though, he was really mis-informed.  Even if you don't play this game on the PC, you should still be mad or understand why PC gamers are mad if you are over the age of 12.  

I think they already took it way to far with CoD: WaW with the 3 map packs which most people said were just middle of the road.  The 2nd was the only one that might be worth owning.  I didn't buy any of those maps packs for that reason.

You specifically said "Over half of console games are pirated"

Well I don't give two shits about Modern Warfare, but I love listening to gamers prove to the world that the majority of us are a bunch of self-entitled little assholes.
 
Personally? I-dub's gonna have more money than god when this thing launches regardless of a few whiny folks. Let them go without MW2. Most of them will break down and buy it anyway, just like with the L4D2 "boycott." And if not? It's not really a loss in sales big enough.
 
You hear that, kids? You. Don't. Matter.

I think it is fair for PC gamers to express concerns about how their overall online experience with this game will work. However, instead of acting remotely mature, most of this crap has spiraled down into basically a bunch of overgrown children whining because they didn't get the right toy they wanted. Along with personal attacks against IW staff, 4chan-style spamming of forums where people actually want to have intelligent discussion, I can't really feel anything except disgust at how out of proportion this is.

"I think it is fair for PC gamers to express concerns about how their overall online experience with this game will work. However, instead of acting remotely mature, most of this crap has spiraled down into basically a bunch of overgrown children whining because they didn't get the right toy they wanted. Along with personal attacks against IW staff, 4chan-style spamming of forums where people actually want to have intelligent discussion, I can't really feel anything except disgust at how out of proportion this is. "

My PC is reserved for e-mail and porn.

" I think it is fair for PC gamers to express concerns about how their overall online experience with this game will work. However, instead of acting remotely mature, most of this crap has spiraled down into basically a bunch of overgrown children whining because they didn't get the right toy they wanted. Along with personal attacks against IW staff, 4chan-style spamming of forums where people actually want to have intelligent discussion, I can't really feel anything except disgust at how out of proportion this is. "

I would love to know where PC gamers are acting like ass holes in this thread. All I see is console people acting like assholes calling PC gamers whining bitches.  When all we are doing is expressing our disagreement with the decision and complaining about it.
 
and too be honest, complaining about something isn't whining like many of you think.

I'll summarize what I said earlier so its fast and simple for everyone to read.
 
PC and console gamers are different groups and they have different needs and different wants. No one should try to integrate the two groups into one.

IWNet, theres no T in there so Treyarch is going to be awesome next year?

I think it's crazy that console-only gamers who have no clue what we're talking about are even posting here.

" I think it's crazy that console-only gamers who have no clue what we're talking about are even posting here. "

For me the lack of dedicated server hurts the "community" feel, not on particuler the "Cod" community or the "MW2" Community but more the community in terms of the people I play with. When I play PC games I tend to stick to clan servers and usually play on the same ones over and over again which means I play again the same kind of people most times as well as other "random" players who are usually in a similer mindset, in terms of how to treat other players. With console style matchmaking it will be harder to meet up with the same people (especially since I cant add everyone in a clan to this list, it would get too confusing with so many players on it assuming it even supports more than 100) and it will be harder to recruit since not all members of clans have strong enough connections to host full match's (on PC I tend to play Cod4 in ~50 player match's) or even smaller match's for say 8 players which is why dedicated servers have always been so great.

Im not sure if this will completely put me off MW2 but it definately is a strong mark against it for me and I will most likely be playing other games at the time of MW2's release instead.

" @mhkjtha said:

" I think it's crazy that console-only gamers who have no clue what we're talking about are even posting here. "

The same can be said for the PC gamers who don't understand the entirety of what IWnet entails and are just nerdrage posting. "

There was nothing wrong with the server browser from COD4.  I think Infinity Ward need to rethink their strategy.