" man the guys at Giantbomb must have a lot of patience to let this topic go like this. I think this has gone a little too out of proportion. I would expect a reaction like this if they said they were going to take out multiplayer or something. "
Well, they pretty much did :)
Anyway, platformwars are never good. I also think those are the real reason for these topics going like this. It's gotten to a point where one can't get away with just blaming the upset PC community for all this commotion.
Im returning to this thread to state that i shall no longer get MW2, not because of the matchmaking thing, not because of the 6v6 thing but because of the Bullshit pricing here in Australia, Thats right $90 freaking US dollars on steam and $115 in retail.
" man the guys at Giantbomb must have a lot of patience to let this topic go like this. I think this has gone a little too out of proportion. I would expect a reaction like this if they said they were going to take out multiplayer or something. "
for anyone outside of Europe or the US they pretty much are "
This. Some of these people should try online gaming in Australia, and see what happens when you try to use the matchmaking on Street FIghter 4 or something. Yuk. "
I don't own a Xbox but the ps3 network is fucked in Aus when you try to find a public match on anything so sick of getting stuck in Japanese Killzone2 pistol only match's I cant imagine its much better on Xbox Live anyway the real point of me posting a follow up
I'm not saying that this isn't effecting anyone in a negative way. The PC gaming scene is in decline, there is no disputing that but it does have it's various advantages over consoles so and still holds an audience. I think this may just be Acti-money's way of trying to make the PC a viable platform to more developers, if they can streamline it to be as accessible as consoles in more respects that might mean more support for the platform. They have to try something and that's my take on this. Whether this is a good or bad strategy is for consumers to decide.
Also, to my fellow Australian gamers out there: I have buddy who lives there and he's always telling me how crap-tastic the support is there. Sometimes you guys straight up don't get games or they are edited to shit. I feel for you guys I really do and I feel grateful that I'm able to game as good as I do in the US. I hope you'll keep gaming even through this debacle. ^_^
Personally i think IW is trying to fix something that isn't broken. I was and still partially am a PC gamer, Now i mainly focus on the 360. I understand that IW is trying to fight piracy, but they're going about it the wrong way. Dedicated Servers are the best thing in gaming. I always get frustrated on my xbox when it takes a couple of minutes to join a lobby where there are a bunch of dickheads and I have to leave and wait to join another lobby. When i play CS:S i love the fact that i can join one of my saved servers and find the same cool,fun people playing. Plus MOD support. Mod support is a must, shit CS and TF wouldn't exist if it wasn't for mods. plus I love hearing Boom Headshot! IW needs to go back to their roots and fix the clusterfuck that is MW2 for the PC. I agree with all of the pissed off pc gamers, but i will still be purchasing the game for x360.
" Im returning to this thread to state that i shall no longer get MW2, not because of the matchmaking thing, not because of the 6v6 thing but because of the Bullshit pricing here in Australia, Thats right $90 freaking US dollars on steam and $115 in retail. "
go look on cdwow http://www.cdwow.com.au/games/PC/CALL-OF-DUTY-MODERN-WARFARE-2/dp/4759415
and mygod that MW2 steam add takes up the whole page i hope its not up there untill the game is out
Yeah, all the PC piraters are shooting themselves in the foot. Pretty soon there wont be anymore awesome PC games to pirate. Also, if PC gamers don't get over their sense of entitlement, I think a lot of publishers are going to find it more lucrative to make games for consoles only.
It maybe over the top but PC gamers have waited all year for Modern Warfare 2 and have been really excited.
There is no need to cancel Your pre-order it will still be a great game and a lot of laughs will be shared.
Bumper stickers OTT.
Petition OTT.
The whole thing OTT
IW.net will destroy competitive games etc and bring the PC gaming community down. (Why would we want to play on console, There all just lil kids who spam mic 24/7)
"Man..there's a lot of senseless bickering about this. I'm not going to pass any judgment over the issue until the game comes out. How knows maybe their replacement for dedicated servers is just as good or maybe even better. "
We don't need to wait to know that more lag, no mods and a smaller maximum player count are not improvements.
" just get it on console, folks. kinda funny that someone made a thread for the guys to mention MW2PC on the bombcast, but brad addresses it here. "
I own all next gen consoles and a PC but I will not get a shooter like MW2 on a console. I made a mistake getting MW1 on 360 and I could not stand playing it with a controller. If you are a casual gamer then yea it is not a problem but I do not enjoy playing a game with auto aiming and reticule adhesion which all console shooters have. The reason I am not getting it is because of the price hike all tho I feel for the PC community losing dedicated servers etc.(Wow now PC gamers are going to have to deal with host advantage and lag glitches)
I own every IW game since medal of honer but since I only dabble in MP I would have only purchased it for the SP so can't justify paying $60 for a PC game that does not have to be submitted to any type of certification process nor do they have to pay a fee to have it on a console.
I don't know... lately I am finding it easy to skip Activision games all together. I skipped games that I would nornally buy like Ultimate Alliance 2 just becasue I don't like the way Activisions treat there customers. O well just my 2 cents.
" Yeah, all the PC piraters are shooting themselves in the foot. Pretty soon there wont be anymore awesome PC games to pirate. Also, if PC gamers don't get over their sense of entitlement, I think a lot of publishers are going to find it more lucrative to make games for consoles only. "
Yeah, because console games can't be pirated, right.
" Yeah, all the PC piraters are shooting themselves in the foot. Pretty soon there wont be anymore awesome PC games to pirate. Also, if PC gamers don't get over their sense of entitlement, I think a lot of publishers are going to find it more lucrative to make games for consoles only. "
Yeah, because console games can't be pirated, right. "
This is a non-response sadly. The level of PC game piracy is outrageous.
Saying, "you can pirate console games too", is laughable.
" Yeah, all the PC piraters are shooting themselves in the foot. Pretty soon there wont be anymore awesome PC games to pirate. Also, if PC gamers don't get over their sense of entitlement, I think a lot of publishers are going to find it more lucrative to make games for consoles only. "
Publishers make games for consoles because it's guaranteed money-maker. You can also cash in some more from DLC. You can pirate on consoles too, but it requires more knowledge than PC pirating.
PC in general is hard audience to target. Make a shit game, it gets pirated. Make a great game, it gets pirated and then bought. Or like DICE, offer no SP or whatsoever and only make the game for MP.
And what are you talking about entitlement? PC games cost 10€ less only because there aren't licensing fees added to the price. Dedicated servers should be also the MP solution for consoles too, you'd get bigger matches and no bullshit e.g. you empty your rounds to the server host and he doesn't die, because there was so poor connection. They also would encourage modding community on consoles, so that companies won't be cashing in 10 euros more from a single hat.
" Yeah, all the PC piraters are shooting themselves in the foot. Pretty soon there wont be anymore awesome PC games to pirate. Also, if PC gamers don't get over their sense of entitlement, I think a lot of publishers are going to find it more lucrative to make games for consoles only. "
Yeah, because console games can't be pirated, right. "
This is a non-response sadly. The level of PC game piracy is outrageous. Saying, "you can pirate console games too", is laughable. "
"Pretty soon there won't be awesome PC games to pirate" implying these kind of games will be dead on PC. Pirates will then move onto the 360 in far more numbers. Why do I get the feeling you won't be making vague and unsubstantiated claims about piracy levels on the 360 then?
You don't get what I'm saying at all. I don't know what the level of PS3 or 360 piracy is. I don't have to.
The point is that we don't have to know, because it is dwarfed in comparison to the level of PC piracy for any particular game. Whenever you make an argument downplaying the level of piracy of PCs it sounds asinine. Compare the number of units sold for MW1 on the PC to consoles.
The sooner people admit that piracy is a large and unique problem for PC games, the sooner people can move toward a real solution. "People can pirate console games too".... that's a non sequiitur.
And before you ask for me to quantify the number of PC games that are pirated, I'll ask you what's the point of doing that?
1) No individual can conduct a scientific study of that nature 2) Game developers that track this data would be most capable of quoting such data 3) I could quote Infinity Ward's own numbers, but you could choose just to not believe them or say that they are untrustworthy, ect.
The proof is in the pudding. PC game sales suck. Developers are making games for the PC anymore. There's a reason for this. It's Piracy.
" @Zatoichi_Sanjuro: You don't get what I'm saying at all. I don't know what the level of PS3 or 360 piracy is. I don't have to. The point is that we don't have to know, because it is dwarfed in comparison to the level of PC piracy for any particular game. Whenever you make an argument downplaying the level of piracy of PCs it sounds asinine. Compare the number of units sold for MW1 on the PC to consoles. The sooner people admit that piracy is a large and unique problem for PC games, the sooner people can move toward a real solution. "People can pirate console games too".... that's a non sequiitur. And before you ask for me to quantify the number of PC games that are pirated, I'll ask you what's the point of doing that? 1) No individual can conduct a scientific study of that nature 2) Game developers that track this data would be most capable of quoting such data 3) I could quote Infinity Ward's own numbers, but you could choose just to not believe them or say that they are untrustworthy, ect. The proof is in the pudding. PC game sales suck. Developers are making games for the PC anymore. There's a reason for this. It's Piracy. "
You accuse me of making an asinine statement and then you go and say "Compare the number of units sold for MW1 on the PC to consoles" as if this was in any way an indication of piracy levels on PC. Call of Duty sold 900,000 according to NPD in 2004, CoD4 sold 2.5 million. If piracy was as great a problem as you claim there would be no CoD4 on pc. In fact there wouldn't even have been a CoD2. How is piracy on the console a non sequiitur? He said PC gaming will die as a result of piracy so you think that means they won't move onto consoles?
You're right. No one in their right mind would believe IWs (completely unsubstantiated) "60%" piracy claim now considering the outright horseshit they spewed in their last public statement.
PC "games sales suck" in comparison to the consoles, in the same way the 360 and PS3 sales suck in comparison to the Wii. Different platforms, different markets.
IW is still making PC versions of CoD despite not wanting to be PC developers since CoD2.
You aren't very good at using analogies to make arguments. They are not applicable at all. Furthermore, they're defensive arguments, at best and do nothing to address PC gaming/sales at it's core.
I'll address one analogy you attempted to make directly, as an example. Comparing Wii game sales to 360 or PS3 is not as effective as me comparing PC to 360 or PS3 games sales for several reasons. The most important reason is that 360, PS3, and PC games have game titles that are extremely similar across the 3 platforms if not straight up ports. Example: Madden for PC and PS3 are essentially the same game. Madden for the Wii and PC are similar in name only.
"unsubstantiated": you use that word incessantly. The burden of proof you place on people to show you that piracy is real is ridiculous. The evidence exists, you just choose not to acknowledge it, or discredit it, etc. Then you attempt to make arguments about consoles, game sales, piracy ect. that don't stand up to the level of scrutiny you apply to other user's arguments. An example would be when you say that IW is still making PC versions because they are making a profit. That might be true, but if I used your level of reasoning I would respond with:
"That's unsubstantiated, where are your figures"
Here's an analogy that is apt:
Your attempts to defend your position on PC game piracy as insignificant are akin to Japanese soldiers still fighting as if World War II isn't over.
We cant really have an opinion until we see IW.net in action. IW should release some footage of IW.net working on the PC so we can understand it better, I think thats a huge part of the problem is a complete lack of understanding of how this system is going to work.
402 has tried his best to explain it, but until we see for ourselves we'll have to reserve judgement. Infinity Ward aren't going to change their mind and suddenly give us dedi servers.
this is crazy its very clear that they dont take very seriusly to pc gamers and want them to go and play console !! i wonder why ?? maybe because they can sell map packs on console ?
" @Zatoichi_Sanjuro: You aren't very good at using analogies to make arguments. They are not applicable at all. Furthermore, they're defensive arguments, at best and do nothing to address PC gaming/sales at it's core. I'll address one analogy you attempted to make directly, as an example. Comparing Wii game sales to 360 or PS3 is not as effective as me comparing PC to 360 or PS3 games sales for several reasons. The most important reason is that 360, PS3, and PC games have game titles that are extremely similar across the 3 platforms if not straight up ports. Example: Madden for PC and PS3 are essentially the same game. Madden for the Wii and PC are similar in name only. "unsubstantiated": you use that word incessantly. The burden of proof you place on people to show you that piracy is real is ridiculous. The evidence exists, you just choose not to acknowledge it, or discredit it, etc. Then you attempt to make arguments about consoles, game sales, piracy ect. that don't stand up to the level of scrutiny you apply to other user's arguments. An example would be when you say that IW is still making PC versions because they are making a profit. That might be true, but if I used your level of reasoning I would respond with: "That's unsubstantiated, where are your figures" Here's an analogy that is apt: Your attempts to defend your position on PC game piracy as insignificant are akin to Japanese soldiers still fighting as if World War II isn't over. "
You completely missed the point that I was throwing your own failed analogy back at you. They have been making and focusing their sales for CoD on the console market ever since CoD2. Comparing the PC and console sales and then saying this disparity is down to piracy is absurd. And you can drop that strawman, I never said piracy wasn't real, just no where near the platform killing levels you are making it out to be.
Now you're claiming Activision isn't making a profit with the CoD PC port? Really?
" We cant really have an opinion until we see IW.net in action. IW should release some footage of IW.net working on the PC so we can understand it better, I think thats a huge part of the problem is a complete lack of understanding of how this system is going to work. 402 has tried his best to explain it, but until we see for ourselves we'll have to reserve judgement. Infinity Ward aren't going to change their mind and suddenly give us dedi servers. "
I'm playing it on console so this doesn't affect me. I would perfer something like IWNet any day though. I dont like scanning servers and remmebering IPs and playing on other people's modded servers.
" Yeah, all the PC piraters are shooting themselves in the foot. Pretty soon there wont be anymore awesome PC games to pirate. Also, if PC gamers don't get over their sense of entitlement, I think a lot of publishers are going to find it more lucrative to make games for consoles only. "
Publishers make games for consoles because it's guaranteed money-maker. You can also cash in some more from DLC. You can pirate on consoles too, but it requires more knowledge than PC pirating. PC in general is hard audience to target. Make a shit game, it gets pirated. Make a great game, it gets pirated and then bought. Or like DICE, offer no SP or whatsoever and only make the game for MP. And what are you talking about entitlement? PC games cost 10€ less only because there aren't licensing fees added to the price. Dedicated servers should be also the MP solution for consoles too, you'd get bigger matches and no bullshit e.g. you empty your rounds to the server host and he doesn't die, because there was so poor connection. They also would encourage modding community on consoles, so that companies won't be cashing in 10 euros more from a single hat. "
This thread is too funny, huh. A recent example of entitlement would be the commotion caused by the annoucement of Left 4 Dead 2. I can see why the community felt they were getting screwed out of a full production campaign (DLC: Maps, Characters, weapons, enemies; patches) and have to shell out another 40 clams. But the collective bitching was so over the top it was embarrassing.
Another example of this sense of entitlement is in torrenting. People savvy enough to build PCs and play games on them almost always torrent them first.--only to purchase them later if deemed worthy (and there's a sweet clearance deal at Best Buy). This doesn't help developers in the slightest. Talk to any Business Dev in the game industry and ask him how royalties are paid out to developers. I guarantee you it's based on 2 major things: sales and critical acclaim (quantifiable evidence like scores, Metacritic is waaaay popular right now). The resulting success of a game determines how much in residuals they get and the rapport the publisher has with that particular developer with that genre/type of game to make games in the future. There are no altruistic reasons behind the contracting/funding of developers. Publishers run the numbers and figure out what games to make at whatever time to make the most profit. that's it. They have investors to answer to.
Yes, there is pirating on consoles. I may be talking out of my ass but I'm pretty sure most console players don't care enough, or are too retarded to pirate games. Pirating for consoles may be laughably easy for some of us but it takes away the whole fucking point of the console. PUT DISC, PRESS START, PLAY (maybe an update here and there). That's it... no install, no downloading drivers, no waiting for steam to get the damn game, no making sure my rig is fast enough. Just boom, done. Compare that to a PC consumer. PC consumers are TRAINED to handle that extra shit. Plus we like better graphics, keyboards, mice, etc.
that's my rant. sorry for the grammar. hope to hear from you soon--This is fun.
" People savvy enough to build PCs and play games on them almost always torrent them first.--only to purchase them later if deemed worthy (and there's a sweet clearance deal at Best Buy). "
Upside: It's interesting that the guys who bitch the loudest are paying the least. I think I'm tired of paying higher prices for my games because of those who don't.
Downside: When MW3 comes out, how long will it be before IW shuts down all of the MW2 servers? Comments from Madden 09 customers?
W0W! everyone has something to say, first off maybe you console players should head over to the EA/BFBC2 forums to tell your fellow console players to stop crying, because they're doing the same thing we pc players are doing except they're crying over prone. Ok; dedicated servers are important because they allow for clan scrims with custom rules, they allow for clan servers, they allow for clan tryouts and they allow for pro gaming, and pro gaming is by far is the biggest on pc hands down. Now dedi servers also allow for little lag for over seas players, without them the over seas pc players cant play for the most part, it also means without them clans can nolonger play together, since this iwnet will match you up locally, also by rand which mean you cant play with higher ranked players, which alot of us like to do, not only because some friends are higher ranked sometimes but a lot of us like to play against higher ranked players because it makes us a better player, also no dedi's mean lag city and smaller matches, there was no reason to remove them scince the pc community payed for and ran and monitored it's own dedi servers, so there what was the point in removing them? oh yea! to make more money and to stamp out the mod community, you know? the mod community? yea, those hard working guys who gave you a working fully functional AC-130 in COD4 MP, you did'nt think MW2 got it by it self did you? no! the COD4 mod community had one working in COD4 for a long while now. Also, i was a ps3 player since it launched, and yes i had and played COD4 on it since it launched untill the day it died of the Y.L.O.D with my COD4 stuck inside. When that happened i threw my dead ps3 out with COD4 inside and i oredered a highend gaming pc with all the trimmings, and i got all the highend games like crysis /crysis warhead/ cod4 /W@W and more, but i'll tell you this COD4 on pc is like a new game, the res is native and crisp and clear and bright , the gameplay is super fast far faster than the console version, and the games are far far bigger 64 players, and it's awesome, and it has lean keys, i cant go back to consoles for MW2. Why would i do that? the ps3/360 version of MW2 will display @600p upscaling to 720p, while the pc version will display @1080p and higher and you can also max out the graphics and textures ect... and run it at far above 60-70fps and up. You people may think it's stipid but it's really not, if we let IW get away with this then when does it stop? game companies will began to think they can do whatever they want and we will just take it with a smile, and don't think it will just be the pc gamers either, it will be consoles sooner rather than latter, the head of activition already stated he wants to raise all acti game prices, so if you don't like it fine, keep it to yourself it doesn't involve you console gamers anyway so why does it bother you? just remember, it will be you guys next and i want to see how you handle it? most likely you will take it with a smile, but you will still cry and when you do i'll be there with my 2cents
Serious gamers honestly only exist on the PC. This category of people demand the very best in graphics (max. resolution, max. AA, max. texture filtering, and max. frames per second). they spend hundreds, and thousands of dollars on building systems that can handle what consoles can never dream of handling.... more importantly these people are serious about their experience. they organize tournaments, and LAN events. They form clans and set up serious practice schedules. They create custom contents, like mods, and maps, and they host it on their own machines and servers, for their friends and for others to enjoy. These people like to have a community. They keep a favorite list of their favorite servers to revisit again and again.... simply because they enjoy the map cycle of the server, or they enjoy the company of the admins and the server keepers, or they simply want to get to know the regulars on the servers...because they like to play the game with proper organization and tactics and voice-coms with people they actually know or have met over and over again on the same server.
I write these words and I must say... I am a serious, serious gamer. I game mainly on the PC, but i do own a PS3, Xbox 360, and wii as well.
YES! dedicated servers and mod-tools are essential. For those who have been in Clans and have competed seriously in multiplayer Leagues know how important dedicated servers are.
IW.net is so vague in term of specifications that serious PC gamers are so un-willing to accept it. who gets the better ping... the host? then that person has an advantage over everyone else. what if a clan has members from several countries? how can they accommodate those players in terms of ping? .... with dedicated servers, no one has the absolute advantage of being the actual host. .... with dedicated servers, clans can rent or setup servers that accommodate all of its members, especially in terms of a neutral location that gives everyone good ping. .... with dedicated servers you dont worry about being hosted on someone's computer who can barely support a single player game, mind you host 16, 32, 64 other people.
the list goes on and on....
but one fact remains, IW are trying something that will without a doubt destroy the PC multiplayer experience of a game that will without a doubt in my mind be a lovely game to play. It's a shame really.
People who arn't buying the game because of this arn't immature at all they are standing up for not wanting pc gaming to be transformed into console gaming the reason we play on pc and fork the extra money for our machines is the fact we have so much freedom then the consoles u take that away well theres no reason for pc gaming to exist anymore other then fact the mouse and keyboard dominate a stick and that not worth 500 dollar difference lol. You take away mods and servers u take away pc gaming its that simple we don't want these lame console ports.
" So, What is the big deal? Don't blame infinity ward for doing this blame the fucking pirators "
Yea blame the pirates. And then 1 day before the game is released, theres a shitload of pirated 360 versions of the game on torrent sites when IW said it was the PC version of COd4 that made them do the changes. How IRONIC.
I think it's really pathetic that infinity ward is screwing over PC gamers and preventing an online community or mod community from forming around this game. It's going to come back to haunt them in regards to sales, I think, even if the game is performing brilliantly on consoles.
I wouldn't mind IWNet at all, if it weren't in such a terrible shape. They needed to fucking beta-test this shit because this is not worth my 60 euro's as it stands. From lobbies closing down during the match starting, to virus' getting sent my way in-game by some pathetic script kiddie that can't handle the fact he got shot in the face.
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