Would you boycott art because you dislike the creator?

It depends on what they did which factors into whether or not I can "separate the artist from the art".

If you want boycott Ender's Game then you probably should because it just isn't that good of a movie.

O.S.C and Enders Game is actually an exact situation which i do this. However, I'm not usually the type to get on a soap box and rant about it, I usually just suffice with a polite "I'm not interested" when it's brought up. For all I know, the books are wonderful and my reasoning is entirely irrational, but I wouldn't be the first person to dislike something for entirely irrational reasons, nor will I be the last.

Though, I suppose my otherwise casual dislike has become intensified by everyone I know doing nothing but talking about Enders Game recently, making me even more resistant to it.

@imst said:

@beachthunder said:

Hitler made some nice paintings, just throwing that out there:

That's a nice painting :D

If only they were nicer, he could have grown up into a nice boy

Of course not, don't be childish.

For a second I thought that tweet was by Leonard Nimoy and was really confused.

You mean phat camps?

Are we even sure movies are art?

Luckily in this situation its a moot point, because Enders Game looks like an incredibly boring movie, regardless of the source material.

Of course they are. Everything that is created by humans in a more carefully way can be called art. Even making of knifes for example.

As a black man in the united states, if I boycotted every work and idea by people who didn't like black people, I wouldn't have read half the books I read growing up or, heck, read many documents written by our nations founders.

@beachthunder said:

Hitler made some nice paintings, just throwing that out there:

Personally, for me it would depend on what the individual had done to make me dislike him/her. On one hand, I would never buy any painting by Hitler, cause Holocaust/Nazis/racism. Even if it looked nice. But on the other hand, if the person was just some crazy scientologist or just a stuck up jackass it would really depend on how much I like the art. Pricks gotta eat too, ya know?

That depends totally on two things. Do I dislike the person because of who they are and their opinions, or do I dislike them because I think their "art" sucks? If it is for the latter then I will happily boycott their art all day long. If it is the former I see no reason why the creator of fine art being a douchenozzle should stop me from enjoying it.

Yes. Roman Polanski comes to mind. I won't see anything relating to that person. There are others but I'm blanking on their names. I don't want to support these creators in any way. No matter how small and insignificant that support might be.

But duuuuuude he did a joint with Kanye West. C'mon you know you want to.

In some ways I think OSC loses more from this movie coming out than he gains. Now, everyone in the world will at some point experience (in some way) a discussion about how much of a out-of-touch jerk he is in life. And, this is the internet age where being a well known assholes means people send you abusive e-mails, tweets, and snail-mail letters. While OSC has probably been getting hate mail for years, I'm sure this year the amount and tone of the hate mail has been interesting.

If you want to make sure OSC knows we think he's a pile of shit...believe me he probably gets that now. That's enough for me, so I say go see the movie. Or, don't see it because I totally understand that too.

That's easy to solve. Do what I did. Delete your Facebook account.

Nope. That would be pretty dumb. I understand the logic, but I personally don't care what someone does in their personal life. All I care about is if I like the end product.

OSC's political views are actually the main reason why I've held off on reading Ender's Game for so long, but it's not a concerted boycott or anything. I just can't get that homophobic bullshit out of the back of my head when I start reading it. Every time I try, I just keep thinking "This was written by a douchebag". It totally breaks my immersion.

Also, I've read Jack Thompson's book. I'm not terrified of opposing views. It just kind of breaks my immersion in a piece of fiction. Which I'm fully aware is more of a problem with me than OSC.

No. I enjoy several of the later day Roman Polanski films for example even though, well, you know.

@beachthunder said:

Hitler made some nice paintings, just throwing that out there:

I would buy that painting.

Edit: I also saw Enders Game on opening night.

I think it's all a matter of degrees. How horrible is the person and their views? Can I, as a consumer, divest their views from their product or art? That can be a tough call in some cases.

If it is something like your brother and his views on Orson Scott Card, I can get why he way feel the way he feels. At the same time I personally have a problem with blanket boycotting someone, especially an author or artist. If I were to boycott every author that I had a moral disagreement with, I would not read a lot of literature. Take, for instance, HP Lovecraft. If you look at his personal life, you will see a man that had some abhorrent views. On the other hand, when I am reading his short stories, I can totally divorce my opinion of his personal views from his writing. I think it’s important to be aware of what they may believe in real life, but it is also important not to stick your head in the sand and not be exposed to fantastic art pieces, films or literature because of that.

I remember getting in a pretty heated online debate years ago about Roman Polanski. He was up for a Best Director Oscar and I believe Best Film for the Pianist and people in this forum were offended that he was being recognized based on what he had done and how he fled the United States. Fair point, but I tried to articulate the point that his film and job as a director should be viewed as such without getting his other outside problems in the mix. I understand not wanting to watch the movie on a personal level, but you would also be cutting yourself off from a lot of movies that are considered classics as well. That would be a shame in the long run, I think.

In the end, it is all personal preference and if you, as a person, feel that you cannot separate a person and their views from their art, then more power to you. Go ahead and boycott their work. But I would say that you shouldn’t shame others for being able to look at a film/book/art piece and enjoy that thing, even if the person creating it was/is a bigot, jerk, whatever.

It depends.

Does the art reflect their pathetic beliefs?

Are their pathetic beliefs a circumstance of their time/culture/age/genetically inferior brain?

What was that spy-like metroidvania that come out on Xbox really early in the cycle? Isn't that guy like a known piece of shit? Didn't everyone still love that game?

Ender's Game, the movie, wasn't made OSC. I thought he had nothing to do with it other than the source material (and you can bet your bottom dollar deviations will be aplenty). Do the two hundred people who worked to make EG also get lumped in OSC when we make these kinds of judgements?

Guess you missed the pretty big controversy surrounding that game then.

What controvery? Wait, first of all, what game?

Nah dude the controversy just happened to only last like 2 weeks. The game still got really high scores and to this day appears on many "Best Of" lists. Really wouldn't say it was "big controversy" at all. More like a speed bump. But seriously what was that game called?

Shadow Complex, I remember a lot of talk of boycotting that game because OSC wrote the story or something like that..

This game I can't remember the name of! Metroidvania game with 3D gaphics. Was a big release, one of the first major downloadables, on Xbox Live. I keep wanting to say Alpha Protocol.... SHADOW PROTOCOL? Nope. still not it.

There we go! Sweet. Here's ze wikipedia summary: "Shortly before the game's release, some gamers considered calling for a boycott of Shadow Complex due to Orson Scott Card's views on homosexuality.^[38][39] The game itself does not contain any references to homosexuality.^[30] Card did not work on the game itself, but licensed the rights from Chair to create novels based on the developer's Empire intellectual property."

Unless they do something so vile that I can't think of the art without thinking of them, then probably not.

@twinsun: Oh right, I forgot he was related to that. Yeah, I vaguely recall the same stuff with Ender's Game coming up back then too.

Yes. Cause assholes.

I'm so glad someone picked up on this.

Agreed. And the same goes for Card and his books. People tell me Ender's Game is all about tolerance. Ironic, considering how homophobic and racist it's author is. And when people started saying they'd boycott the movie, he pleaded for "tolerance". If he's too stupid to see the messaging in his own book, why should I bother reading it at all? This is a guy who's compared gays to animals and believes Obama is going to use poor black people to create some sort of Third Reich-esque empire. Fuck that guy.

I do. It's not even a conscious choice.It's just if I don't like a certain person (or what that person stands for) any interest in their work vanishes. And that even works retroactively for stuff I watched before I disliked a person involved in it.

I thought the point of Ender's Game is "Do the ends justify the means?" The thing about tolerance seems to come much later after atrocities have been committed.

A lot of shithead, awful people have made the best art. I think it's ridiculous to think this way.

People talk about say Orson Scott Card and I wonder how many other bigoted creators just keep their mouths shut to the public or their statements aren't picked up on and no one notices or cares. Or historically how much of that went on and no one notices or cares now. Silly.

The idea of it is so holier than thou to me.

The person who built the bridge you drive on may be a bigot. The person who owns the bank your money is in. Your landlord. But to pick out a piece of art. I just don't get the thinking but hey, knock yourself out.

As long as they aren't giving their money to hate/violent groups it doesn't really bother me. Also I'm pretty sure OSC isn't making any money from the Ender's Game movie. Personally I really liked Ender's Game when I was in middle-school and I want to see the movie version, even if I disagree with his beliefs.

he is a member of the board of the national organization for marriage.

so yes, he did (killing no, discriminating yes).

I chose the second option, but for me it also depends on whether the art in question is primarily the work of one person or many. In the case of a movie like this, a boycott wouldn't just hurt Card. There's a ton of collateral damage with all the other people who worked on it, many of whom will see more direct effects based on the movie's success or failure than Card will. I felt the same way about Shadow Complex. Why punish Chair for Card's bigotry?

I wouldn't buy one of his books, though. A far greater share of that money goes to the awful person in question.

This is why that homophobic asshat who made Earthworm Jim won't get a fucking dime out of me.

I bought FEZ because that game is cool, but I didn't enjoy it because Phil Fish is an asshole and every time I saw something cool I just imagined his smug fucking face.

I wouldn't boycott or anything like that, though that's probably because the reasons for boycotting games are moronic.

I'm not exactly running to revisit the works of Mel Gibson, nor am I soapboxing about it on Facebook. Do what you please, says I.

@gaminghooligan said:

@sweep said:

I bought FEZ because that game is cool, but I didn't enjoy it because Phil Fish is an asshole and every time I saw something cool I just imagined his smug fucking face.

I wouldn't boycott or anything like that, though that's probably because the reasons for boycotting games are moronic.

This had me laughing for a solid minute. What a great picture. It's not quite Will Smith Cum Face but it's up there.

I would not.

I was already planning on boycotting Ender's Game because I hate that book and have never liked Card's style of writing. It also probably helps that the movie doesn't appear to be all that great either.

But to actually address the question... maybe? While I won't condemn someone for refusing to eat delicious Chick Fill'A, the thing about life is that there are going to be a lot of people whose views you disagree with, and short of hiding in the mountains and homeschooling your kids you probably can't avoid dealing with them or giving them money in some way.

Hitler was a pretty good painter. I sure as hell am not going to appreciate it.

It's a tough question and one that I don't think I can really answer definitively. I have no problem saying fuck Orson Scott Card and Ender's Game but mostly because that movie looks like poop from a butt. But I don't really have any issue watching Roman Polanski movies. Like, I know Mel Gibson is piece of shit but are you going to try and tell me that Lethal Weapon isn't fucking awesome?

I think I've just accepted that I'm kind of a hypocrite when it comes to this stuff. It really depends on the person and the art.