Couple of things before I write this.
1. I'm a man.
2. Because I'm a man, I really don't know how actually women feel about this game. Therefore, I am not really representing women at all.
3. BUT I'm gonna try to defend Abbie Heppe(I think that's her name...) who said that she would have given a higher score to "Other M" if she has not been so offended by it.
4. I know this is gonna make people to disagree with me or even make them angry but that is NOT my intention. I just want to give a different perspective.
Samus Aran is a tough girl. I think we all know that. Now, I don't really know about chronological order of Metroid and to be quiet honest, I really don't care. So the whole, "she has beaten him numerous times," or "she has saved the world already by now" thing does not really make sense to me.
Also, I thought it was a stretch when the reviewer said "she is taking an order from this man because... well... she's a woman." Maybe I interpreted that in a wrong way but that argument was a stretch.
But the reason why I can agree with Abbie is because of her strangely different character compare to other Metroid games and her reliance on her armor to be strong.
Abbie complains about Samus being short without her armor. I know. I know. "So what? She is short. Not a big deal!" Well... let me give you a different perspective.
Samus Aran is a tough girl(and yes I am repeating it on purpose). She always has been the "un-sexualized silent protagonist" except when she wore Zero-Suit in Super Smash Bothers Brawl(I thiink they even made a poster of that which I thought was pretty awkward). But Abbie was right when she said Nintendo has been doing a great job at NOT sexualizing her. At least the way I see it, Samus has never been "I'm a girl BUT I'm tough" but more like "I'm just tough" type of character.
What "Other M" failed to do was making that point. She is just... not a tough person. And when she takes off her armor, her personality just changes. Maybe I am in a minority but I always thought Samus Aran would be talking back to everybody and say things like "shut up, I'm doing this my way" type of character(come on... she's a frigging bounty hunter!) Moreover, when she takes off her armor, she is shorter than any other characters in the game even though, when everybody wears armors, they all look pretty much the same height. Maybe her armor is extra thick but I did not like that. It made looked like she was nothing without her armor. Of course, height does not equal to her attitude and strength but because she is obedient(which is already out of her character), her short height and the way she looked up to other characters became way too noticeable to me.
In the past games, even without her armor, she was a strong character. Zero suit! come on! She still had a gun and a whip! But in this game, she just looks.... weak, which contradicts her character.
So... I can see why Abbie has been offended by this game. If you ask me if she Is overreacting, I can say yes to that. But if you ask me if she is wrong, I'm going to say no to that.
Of course, I do not think Team Ninja nor Nintendo did this on purpose. I do not think that people who like this game are sexists, either. All I'm asking for is a little perspective. You can disagree with me. I'm not asking for a round applause or anything like that. Just wanted to say that there are some things I can agree with Abbie and I can somewhat see where she is coming from.
P.S.
Quote from Apathylad
Here's what I don't get: is seeing Samus as a vulnerable little girl any different than how emotional Bruce Wayne was as a child in Batman Begins ?
I actually think this is a apple and orange type of thing but... let me try clarifying this one.
As I said before, Samus always has been a tough person. We really do not know a lot of things about her past. We don't know why she is strong or why she is such a "silent protagonist," which what makes her being a "vulnerable little girl" very awkward and unnatural. She always has been strong and NOW we know she has a vulnerable side? Compare to other Samus from other Metroid series, this Samus sticks out like sore thumb.
Bruce Wayne, on the other hand, has a dark past, which what MAKES him stronger. We have that information and we can accept that and admire him for it. Unlike Samus, Bruce does not really have a.... let's say "a hidden past." We know what motivates him, we know what makes him stronger and we know how that shapes him, which, in my book, totally justifies him being "a child in Batman Begins."
Metroid: Other M
Game » consists of 8 releases. Released Aug 31, 2010
Set between the events of Super Metroid and Metroid Fusion, Other M follows Samus Aran on a rescue mission to a derelict ship in deep space where she encounters her former commanding officer and a whole host of old and new trouble.
Thought on "Other M" being sexist
Couple of things before I write this.
1. I'm a man.
2. Because I'm a man, I really don't know how actually women feel about this game. Therefore, I am not really representing women at all.
3. BUT I'm gonna try to defend Abbie Heppe(I think that's her name...) who said that she would have given a higher score to "Other M" if she has not been so offended by it.
4. I know this is gonna make people to disagree with me or even make them angry but that is NOT my intention. I just want to give a different perspective.
Samus Aran is a tough girl. I think we all know that. Now, I don't really know about chronological order of Metroid and to be quiet honest, I really don't care. So the whole, "she has beaten him numerous times," or "she has saved the world already by now" thing does not really make sense to me.
Also, I thought it was a stretch when the reviewer said "she is taking an order from this man because... well... she's a woman." Maybe I interpreted that in a wrong way but that argument was a stretch.
But the reason why I can agree with Abbie is because of her strangely different character compare to other Metroid games and her reliance on her armor to be strong.
Abbie complains about Samus being short without her armor. I know. I know. "So what? She is short. Not a big deal!" Well... let me give you a different perspective.
Samus Aran is a tough girl(and yes I am repeating it on purpose). She always has been the "un-sexualized silent protagonist" except when she wore Zero-Suit in Super Smash Bothers Brawl(I thiink they even made a poster of that which I thought was pretty awkward). But Abbie was right when she said Nintendo has been doing a great job at NOT sexualizing her. At least the way I see it, Samus has never been "I'm a girl BUT I'm tough" but more like "I'm just tough" type of character.
What "Other M" failed to do was making that point. She is just... not a tough person. And when she takes off her armor, her personality just changes. Maybe I am in a minority but I always thought Samus Aran would be talking back to everybody and say things like "shut up, I'm doing this my way" type of character(come on... she's a frigging bounty hunter!) Moreover, when she takes off her armor, she is shorter than any other characters in the game even though, when everybody wears armors, they all look pretty much the same height. Maybe her armor is extra thick but I did not like that. It made looked like she was nothing without her armor. Of course, height does not equal to her attitude and strength but because she is obedient(which is already out of her character), her short height and the way she looked up to other characters became way too noticeable to me.
In the past games, even without her armor, she was a strong character. Zero suit! come on! She still had a gun and a whip! But in this game, she just looks.... weak, which contradicts her character.
So... I can see why Abbie has been offended by this game. If you ask me if she Is overreacting, I can say yes to that. But if you ask me if she is wrong, I'm going to say no to that.
Of course, I do not think Team Ninja nor Nintendo did this on purpose. I do not think that people who like this game are sexists, either. All I'm asking for is a little perspective. You can disagree with me. I'm not asking for a round applause or anything like that. Just wanted to say that there are some things I can agree with Abbie and I can somewhat see where she is coming from.
P.S.
Quote from Apathylad
Here's what I don't get: is seeing Samus as a vulnerable little girl any different than how emotional Bruce Wayne was as a child in Batman Begins ?
I actually think this is a apple and orange type of thing but... let me try clarifying this one.
As I said before, Samus always has been a tough person. We really do not know a lot of things about her past. We don't know why she is strong or why she is such a "silent protagonist," which what makes her being a "vulnerable little girl" very awkward and unnatural. She always has been strong and NOW we know she has a vulnerable side? Compare to other Samus from other Metroid series, this Samus sticks out like sore thumb.
Bruce Wayne, on the other hand, has a dark past, which what MAKES him stronger. We have that information and we can accept that and admire him for it. Unlike Samus, Bruce does not really have a.... let's say "a hidden past." We know what motivates him, we know what makes him stronger and we know how that shapes him, which, in my book, totally justifies him being "a child in Batman Begins."
You're describing Samus as tough but you don't really provide any examples of what her personality was like prior to Other M's release. It isn't so much that she's a silent protagonist, but most Metroid games didn't explore her as a person. If you played through Metroid Fusion, you would see she was attached to her male superior officer so many years ago.
*SPOILERS
I don't know if Other M is sexist, but it does seem a little strange that she would kowtow to the Federation's orders.
" @Apathylad: That seems to capture Samus's personality pretty well. She seems determined and argues with the computer over the orders from the Federation. She even seems to convince it to let her start the self-destruct cycle. There's nothing to indicate that the fact that Adam was a man had anything to do with her decisions. I don't know if Other M is sexist, but it does seem a little strange that she would kowtow to the Federation's orders. "She isn't kowtowing to the Federation's orders. She's agreeing to follow Adam's orders for the duration of the mission in order to work in tandem with the rest of Adam's squad.
I could be wrong here, but wasn't Fusion pretty much the first time Samus has ever acted against the orders of the Federation? I mean, they order her to take out Space Pirates, and she does. They send her to destroy the Phazon, she does. They tell her to wipe out the Metroids from their home planet, and she does, except for the one that she 'captures'- and the first thing she does is turn it over to the federation. She's a Bounty Hunter, sure, but when she got orders she followed them.
Fusion, which is set some time after Other M, has Samus and the federation seemingly more distant, with her in more of a position to disagree with what she's told to do. The federation wants her to keep the research station going, despite the X Parasites basically being unstoppable if they make it out. She goes directly against her orders for the first time that I can recall in the series and destroys both the station and the planet the X parasites were from.
Also note that Adam dies sometime between Other M and Fusion, with Samus stating that the last time she'd worked with Adam she still considered herself young and inexperienced. On top of her stating flat out that she saw Adam as a replacement father figure, what with her parents dying in a Pirate attack and the Chozo disappearing suddenly, it makes sense that his death, depending on the circumstances, would have a lot to do with how Samus' attitude develops.
Being Obedient at that point makes no sense, and was simply an easy way for them to explain away that she no longer had her powers.
too many games that follow this methodology are getting sloppy at it, samus has been through how many missions and lost her weapons *some how* at the beginning to give you a reason to go search for new weapons or hell even the same damn weapons again. The reason in metroid other M as they are described make no sense, and is pretty lame and weak, but as I said a few games are getting lazy with their reasoning, Take GOW 3 Kratos lost his shit once before...and he loses it a 2nd time. In a very weak and lame way.
The losing your abilities mechanic is old and needs to be gotten rid of. But if they are gonna use it, Atleast make it inventive not lame and nonsensical.
lols"
2. Because I'm a man, I really don't know how actually women feel "
Anyhow. Its more about them creating a stupid character in Samus than a feminine one. Internet crusaders are choosing to interpret people thinking new Samus is acting uncharacteristically like a little bitch because they're afraid of femininity. But what does that have to do with being feminine? You think its feminine to be weak? That's fucked up. They're also citing the manga. They bring up a video game manga, and its around this point that you should just tune them out because they're hopeless. Think of her development more like when Sonic started talking and less like if Alyx had to take a breather because its that time of the month and I'm quivering over here cus I'm afraid of how women work. At the end of the day, if you're defending this you're defending Team Ninja characterization and that speaks to your low standards.
At this point nearly all of us are discussing the supposed sexism based on second-hand opinions from reviewers or "people who know people". I can say unequivocally that nothing I have actually seen of the character has made a noticeable difference in how I view Samus. It's like Casino Royale in the Bond Series; The lead role is more brash and vulnerable than we are used to, but it is still Samus.
" At this point nearly all of us are discussing the supposed sexism based on second-hand opinions from reviewers or "people who know people". I can say unequivocally that nothing I have actually seen of the character has made a noticeable difference in how I view Samus. It's like Casino Royale in the Bond Series; The lead role is more brash and vulnerable than we are used to, but it is still Samus. "The game is out. Choice cutscenes are online. You're choosing to believe anyone with an opinion has no merit for it because you don't want to believe the game is bad in this regard.
Everyone has weaknesses. There's something out there for each of us that will bring out that weakness. Obviously Adam is the main trigger for Samus, and his role in Other M makes sense story-wise for her to show that weakness. It's not feminine to have a weakness, it's human. Some would have said it was a weakness on Bruce Wayne's part to take in Robin, that it was uncharacteristic, but it's something we've learned to mostly accept as true to the character at this point.
She follows orders because she was formerly a part of that squad. She's also obviously fond of the Federation at the time of Other M due to her past with them. She's followed their orders in every other game (save that scene in Fusion). She met up with her squad, her former Commander or Sergeant or whatever Adam is, and the Federation, so she agreed to use her weapons as they saw fit. I don't think it betrays her character at all, and I don't think it makes her subservient or weak, just respectful.
Most people with a military background would do the exact same thing in that situation.
Of course, I've not seen all the cutscenes from the game, so this is my opinion based purely on preview footage, etc.
I think the people that bitch about this being sexist are the same that bitched about RE5 being racist. It's a game just play it. A reviewer giving it a lower score because she thinks it's sexist is a moron and shouldn't be so easily offended.
I just went out of my way to watch the G4 review as i tend to ignore them and I'm right. Shes a moron.
"IF I HEARD ANYONE SAY THEY LIKE THAT CHARACTER I WONT WANT TO BE FRIENDS WITH THEM ANYMORE"
Really? Someones opinion differs so the HONOUR of being your friend goes out the window? Boo freaking hoo. I love how they guess Samus must be about 35 as well. Utter morons.
This is why I hope they never give Mario any meaningful dialogue or a personality outside of "Itza a me! Maaaario!!".
I think the problem is they're appealing to Japan with this move and in Japanese games men look like girls and act like bitches, so its a unisex trait. The issue isn't her acting like a woman, its her acting like a bullshit Final Fantasy character. Gender doesn't matter, its a poorly conceived take on the character even if the character was male. Honestly, you guys act like if this was Master Chief quivering in his boots people wouldn't have a problem. Oh but he was already a little bitch in the Halo books so its okay, god forbid he has character development geez. Silly discussion." Everyone has weaknesses. There's something out there for each of us that will bring out that weakness. Obviously Adam is the main trigger for Samus, and his role in Other M makes sense story-wise for her to show that weakness. It's not feminine to have a weakness, it's human. Some would have said it was a weakness on Bruce Wayne's part to take in Robin, that it was uncharacteristic, but it's something we've learned to mostly accept as true to the character at this point. She follows orders because she was formerly a part of that squad. She's also obviously fond of the Federation at the time of Other M due to her past with them. She's followed their orders in every other game (save that scene in Fusion). She met up with her squad, her former Commander or Sergeant or whatever Adam is, and the Federation, so she agreed to use her weapons as they saw fit. I don't think it betrays her character at all, and I don't think it makes her subservient or weak, just respectful. Most people with a military background would do the exact same thing in that situation. Of course, I've not seen all the cutscenes from the game, so this is my opinion based purely on preview footage, etc. "
If you want to create a character fine, but its different when you go in and undo how a popular preconceived character interacts with the world to appeal to manga readers who never gave a fuck about Metroid, at the expense of the real fans.
I can't understand why everyone seems to think Samus is unlike every other sexploited girl in a game. I mean, the metroid games have always awarded you at their end with images of her in skimpy costumes. Sure, for the rest of the game, none of that's seen, but that still doesn't mean it can be excused as not happening.
What I'm basically saying is that if you're going to get upset about Samus being sexualized, then this isn't the game to get angry at. In fact, it's the entire Metroid franchise.
No one is hardcore to the core. They tried to portray her humanity through her human side. It is a common thing in the media and art.Of course, I do not think Team Ninja nor Nintendo did this on purpose.
No one feels connected to a machine, but to a human being, and a human being isn't always strong. So as she has a hard-ass image, they probably had to accentuate her frailty.
Only time will tell if they make the right choice, although i don't look at Team Ninja for character development. If Nintendo wanted that, they probably barked at the wrong tree.
Is Other M Sexist? No. Out of character for Samus? Yes. I also wonder what Abbie's reaction would have been if Adam was an Amanda? It seems she's picked on the poor choices in the characterisation of Samus and bent it to her own agenda, although I personally believe they saw it as an opportunity to drum up some controversy and get a few more clicks!
" I can't understand why everyone seems to think Samus is unlike every other sexploited girl in a game. I mean, the metroid games have always awarded you at their end with images of her in skimpy costumes. Sure, for the rest of the game, none of that's seen, but that still doesn't mean it can be excused as not happening. What I'm basically saying is that if you're going to get upset about Samus being sexualized, then this isn't the game to get angry at. In fact, it's the entire Metroid franchise. "That's different. That doesn't infect every facet of the game, and most people never see it.
" Is Other M Sexist? No. Out of character for Samus? Yes. I also wonder what Abbie's reaction would have been if Adam was an Amanda? It seems she's picked on the poor choices in the characterisation of Samus and bent it to her own agenda, although I personally believe they saw it as an opportunity to drum up some controversy and get a few more clicks! "Isn't this Bioshock 2? You seem to be working from a blank slate and ignoring generations of gender roles. If Adam was Amanda is a completely different situation. Its not hypocritical to think one is chauvinistic and the other isn't. Its still weird. At that point you've got a weird matriarch thing going on. Its a weird contrivance either way, to put a strong character uncharacteristically under the willful submission of another.
From what I know about the plot of the game, I see Samus being weak and mopey in the game because she is distraught from the death of the baby metroid. And after all the years of bounty hunting, she wants to be in something organized (why she's not hesitant to follow Malkovich and his orders), so she joined the crew in the Bottle Ship.
I feel like if there is a direct sequel for Other M, Samus will snap out and metaphorically say "HELL NAWW" and stop taking orders and become a lone ranger once again.
Maybe my opinion will change once I actually play the game though.
As regards to the way Samus is portrayed as a weak individual, obviously that wasn't intentional, but they screwed up none the less. I can at least agree with that but I'm sure Samus' voice actress is partly to blame as well.
I do, however, feel that Other M was a genuine attempt at rejuvenating the Metroid franchise, while partly bringing it back to it's roots. Sure, there was money involved largely, also, but that's always the case.
About the whole issue with her being shorter than anyone else in the game... I'm not sure I really see it. That doesn't seem like a big deal. I think her armor is kinda magical and thus, it doesn't really seem that outlandish that it could make her four feet taller than her human height or whatnot. I mean, this is armor that can turn into a ball for fuck's sake, it's clearly capable of some whacky shit. Her armor being able to transform into a perfect sphere makes no logical sense, and no physiological/anatomic sense. How can she endure being turned into a small ball? Well, who knows? Maybe her whole body just goes into some sort of subspace pocket while in ball form.
They even addressed this peculiarity in the video by asking how her arm fits into the cannon while wearing the armor. Her other arm with the gloved hand is about the same length as the cannon arm so where does her hand and forearm go? Maybe they just disappear into subspace as well. Who knows?
" @AgentJ said:The game comes out tomorrow. But even if it was out, I wouldn't make a judgement until I've played it. And I certainly wouldn't base my opinion on a single review." At this point nearly all of us are discussing the supposed sexism based on second-hand opinions from reviewers or "people who know people". I can say unequivocally that nothing I have actually seen of the character has made a noticeable difference in how I view Samus. It's like Casino Royale in the Bond Series; The lead role is more brash and vulnerable than we are used to, but it is still Samus. "The game is out. Choice cutscenes are online. You're choosing to believe anyone with an opinion has no merit for it because you don't want to believe the game is bad in this regard. "
" She always has been the "un-sexualized silent protagonist" except when she wore Zero-Suit in Super Smash Bothers Brawl(I thiink they even made a poster of that which I thought was pretty awkward). But Abbie was right when she said Nintendo has been doing a great job at NOT sexualizing her. At least the way I see it, Samus has never been "I'm a girl BUT I'm tough" but more like "I'm just tough" type of character."
Yeah, that Zero Suit was really revealing.
" @Hailinel: Is Adam in Other M? I haven't played the game. Like I said, I can't vouch for or refute that there is sexism in Other M. I can only comment on the things that other people say about the game. The way people describe it, she's obedient when normally she wouldn't be. Maybe they're straight up wrong. If she needs to follow orders to avoid hurting the good guys, that seems reasonable to me. It's kind of bothersome that I'd have to support a product to see if it's worth supporting. I'm just trying to get a feel for it before that. "Yes he is.
I still think the following orders thing stems more from her military past than a submissiveness thing. It's common for former soldiers to have strict codes of respect and adherence to commands, even once they're out of the military, particularly to their former commanders.
Well all this talk about being obedient, to a man it's "sexist" for some and if it was a woman those calling it sexist haven't really talked much about either way. Personally, I see it as trying to prove herself and literally walking through fire to get the respect from one of the few humans she clearly respects and wants respect from. Now was it a good story choice? Yes, but they could have done it far better and without so much melodrama. A male Samus or a female Samus, a male or female commander, either way the story would be the same and it wouldn't have been about gender unless that's how you want to see it. Sir Francis Drake was subservient and obedient to his queen after all and I'm not going to call that sexist.
Being obedient at all to the Federation command? That's really not new to Metroid at all. Samus was sent on a mission by the Federation with clear orders in every game except Super Metroid and Prime 2. Yes she is a bounty hunter, but she still follows the ruling government body and military command structure. So with MOM she does it yet again. Now in a military mission you either follow their command or you get out. So if Samus were to say "screw you, I have green hair" and just brush her way past the individual in charge she would be acting directly against the law. Not even counting the fact she was once part of the military herself, does she really seem like she would disregard the law? To put herself in opposition of the Galactic Federation just because someone didn't want her on a mission she knows nothing about? It would be a very short game if she showed up and left because she wouldn't follow commands and it would be a very different game if she decided to randomly and arguably out of character to make the Federation her enemy just because she couldn't respond to a distress signal with very little information.
Add on top of that she encounters someone who was a father figure to her, someone who trained her and by MOM's own story states she learned much about her moral compass and human ideals (as opposed to the ideas she had as a very young girl self or from Chozo)? Someone of whom she is is desperate to get a fatherly "you did good kid" and acceptance by her peers who knew her not as the "Legendardy Bounty Hunter" as troops in Corruption did, but instead as Cadet Aran. It's understandable and reasonable (though not perfectly, stupid Varia suit not being used from the start) to me why she accepts the orders to not use Supper Missles that could kill the entire team as she is too used to working alone and to prove that when weakened she is still the best force for the Galactic Federation there. I wouldn't care if Adam was Eve or a giant talking bird, it would have felt the same and never sexist to be obedient.
Now Samus being short and looking weak? Now that's valid. I can easily see that especially considering the old manuals listed her as 1.90m (about 6ft) tall, concept art and design schematics showed the Power Suit only adding only a tiny boost to her height. For her to be shorter then everyone else? That's a wee bit odd and out of place. They did make her seem weaker her in MOM they she did in any other game. However actually being weak outside her suit I don't quite agree with. She is still shown to have been a good cadet (minus some disobedience and the discharge) able to keep up with the others and put up a fight. This should have been shown far more just like Zero Mission however, where it was do or die and she did. MOM, she gets rattled once by a person she thought was dead, and though stupid, happens to the best of people who kill an enemy combatant and suddenly find themselves face to face with them once more. That was being weak once aye, but she did well enough on her own through out the rest of the game just as the males in the game were shown to be weak once or twice and needed Samus to rescue them.
Being different outside the suit. Just going by the games we only ever had what we thought she sounded like and acted outside of the hulking armour with nothing but a drawing of her as a kid with her Chozo adoptive parent what we got in Fusion. Quite the disconnect if you only imagined her to be silent rarely emotions ever shown. I never saw her as a female Riddick or to be a Ripley despite the inspiration. I always saw her in me mind as a woman who due to spending her developmental years with Chozo rather then humans as someone who had trouble connecting, talking to, and showing emotions in full to other humans. A stranger in a strange land who can turn into a morph ball and is a chosen warrior. I never saw her as someone who had no emotions at all though or didn't want respect and love from those few with whom she did connect to. Could they have done better to show the want of respect by Adam in MOM? Aye, but was it sexist? Nay. Instead it's really just how much of the Samus we imagined her to be vs the Samus she is shown to be in this game.
I will say she does act rather different out of the suit though, which isn't that new to me after years of reading Spider-Man. Peter Parker was meek wallflower nerd who felt okay to express his problems and issues to those he trusted around him. As Spider-Man he was a confident, annoying, brave, foolish superhero. The mask and the different identity made quite the difference despite it being the same person. This is not an excuse for Samus acting "weaker" if that's how you see her, I can't say personaly as I never really thought about her outside of the suit or what she did in her free time, but it is to say she is hardly alone as fictional characters who act different outside of wearing a mask/personality/armour.
Viewing this game as sexist in it's entirety is just daft to me. Never once is Samus anything other then a heroine, never once does she ever state or act as though because she is a female she can't do what the men can. In fact she does more then every other male character does in the entire game with hindrances and proves just how strong she is. How it ever become "I'm just a girl, help me out big nice men" or suddenly switched from Metroid Other Mission to Metroid Cooking Other Mama, then I would agree it was sexist. Fortunately, and even with a sub-par story, we get a Samus who is nothing but a tough warrior in combat, powerful even when weakened by orders, and does more then anyone regardless of gender could or would do.
I hope Team Ninja and Sakamoto do look at the complaints and issues people had however and when they work on the sequel and try to work in something that shows Samus away from trying to prove herself to someone like Adam and around those she doesn't want to impress and get respect from. Say some of those troops who survived in Corruption, the ones that saw her as a living legend and need to learn she is still a mere mortal (I would say just human, but she's just as much Chozo as she is human). With MOM, we have a Japanese melodrama that by game standards is not the worst we've ever seen and could be far better, yet isn't a sexist horrible tale that will end all literary work forever with female characters. We've had far worse video game stories in the past and having played this game to it's end (and on my fourth run through), I've been able to casually witness the story and merge it with how I've imagined Samus to be just as I have with every other Metroid game. I expect to do the same with a hopefully less melodramatic story and better VA (even if they do try to keep the lack of emotion in her voice) sequel, no matter what it will be like.
I kinda wish Jeff reviewed the game. he was pretty honest about Twilight Princess, and it sounds like he was questioning the decisions made for this game pretty hard. Brad kind of sounded like an old fan who was just happy with a new Metroid game, and a little too forgiving of legitimate issues with the game.
" I kinda wish Jeff reviewed the game. he was pretty honest about Twilight Princess, and it sounds like he was questioning the decisions made for this game pretty hard. Brad kind of sounded like an old fan who was just happy with a new Metroid game, and a little too forgiving of legitimate issues with the game. "Jeff gave Twilight Princess a high score. Furthermore, it doesn't sound like you honestly care about Jeff's opinion, but merely want him to validate yours. Are you questioning Brad's taste? :P
"Everyone has weaknesses. There's something out there for each of us that will bring out that weakness. Obviously Adam is the main trigger for Samus, and his role in Other M makes sense story-wise for her to show that weakness. It's not feminine to have a weakness, it's human. Some would have said it was a weakness on Bruce Wayne's part to take in Robin, that it was uncharacteristic, but it's something we've learned to mostly accept as true to the character at this point. She follows orders because she was formerly a part of that squad. She's also obviously fond of the Federation at the time of Other M due to her past with them. She's followed their orders in every other game (save that scene in Fusion). She met up with her squad, her former Commander or Sergeant or whatever Adam is, and the Federation, so she agreed to use her weapons as they saw fit. I don't think it betrays her character at all, and I don't think it makes her subservient or weak, just respectful. Most people with a military background would do the exact same thing in that situation. Of course, I've not seen all the cutscenes from the game, so this is my opinion based purely on preview footage, etc. "
This appears to be right on the money. I'm just wasting some time now and am watching some YouTube cutscenes (never played the games and don't own a Wii). People are simply surprised when the 'tough' character shows weakness and emotion.
Uh, what? Just because you don't agree with any of the issues brought up doesn't mean they aren't legitimate. Yes, I have played the game. While I'm not going to say it's sexist, since I don't have the same life experience as Abbie or any girl for that matter, but every other thing she said in that review is a completely legitimate issue that I have with the game." @Gordy: Have you played it? There arnt really any legitimate issues to speak of. "
@LlamaLlama said:
No, they're surprised at how badly shoehorned it is into the character, and how badly written that weakness and 'emotion' is. Just calling it emotion is hard for me to do, it's such complete cookie cutter, cliche, cardboard cutout, bottom of the barrel anime writing.People are simply surprised when the 'tough' character shows weakness and emotion. "
@Apathylad said:
You don't remember the "controversy" of him giving it an 8.8? Message boards were freaking out over that. And why wouldn't I care about Jeff's opinion? I'm just interested in what the other guys would have to say about the game, but listening to the podcast it sounds like only Vinny has any interest in trying it.Jeff gave Twilight Princess a high score. Furthermore, it doesn't sound like you honestly care about Jeff's opinion, but merely want him to validate yours. Are you questioning Brad's taste? :P "
I honestly don't see the whole "sexist" thing. I know people are pissed at how Samus is presented, but... how did they think she was?
She lost her parents at age 3, right in front of her. Their killer keeps coming back to life. She lost her foster parents. Her surrogate father is a douche (in my opinion). You were expecting a flawless character. Yes, she isn't that interesting but she's still interesting as far as character and background is concerned. She's still serious, unsubtle when facing injustice, badass and yet we're seeing a side we don't see, her more human side. The moment they try to flesh out a female, it's always "SEXIST!"
Let me point this out for all of you feminists and such... SAMUS ISN'T SEXIST. A woman written by Frank Miller in his post-Sin City days... crazy for men, thinks about her looks and men, purposely looks good for attracting men both reader and in story characters... THAT'S sexist. Samus is... obviously designed to allure male gamers but her personality isn't gaga for guys. What is sexist about her?
She takes orders from a man? Yeah, because he's a commander.
She's mistreated and looked down on despite her goals? It's because she's a bounty hunter and a former soldier, not because she's a woman.
She talks on and on about Adam? She doesn't want him to bone her! She wants his respect again because he practically raised her in the Federation!!!
As I said to KWing, her interestingness is like a movie you've been waiting to see. It's good but not as good as you'd expect.
As I've read, she's like a female Batman. She's serious and desires to see wrongs undone... but is lonely and saddened with all of her friends and loved ones dying around her. So to me, this game didn't mess up Samus in anyway... nothing sexist about it.
PS My opinion... but... Spoony should go to hell for his "review" of this game... then again I already want him dead for his "Revenge of the Fallen" review.
EDIT: If this is too long for you, I think DragonRex1 really explains it well and concisely... I merely go deeper into the history, and add a few of my own thoughts as to why Samus is the way she is.
I don't think I'm gonna play the game anytime soon. But I saw that video on g4, and beyond the hosts being rather disgusting.. I was a bit confused (probably because I haven't played the game). I read the manga after playing Corruption, since I wanted to know the background story. It might be a misconception from their part in thinking that Samus is not a normal human being. Maybe they think she is supposed to be a cool superhero or something that is a cold badass, who follows her own rules and nothing else. If this were the case, then it could subjectively be sexist to portray her as a little girl that follows everything Adam says. However, that's not who Samus is.
**SPOILER ON METROID MANGA**
1. As people pointed out...Riddley killed her parents in front of her... not just killed, he tore them apart.
2. She goes live with the Chozo (a very pacific group of super-intelligent beings about to go extinct). There she develops as a warrior.. but also develops a very caring personality. -The same thing that killed her parents.. kills the entire Chozo population.
3. The reason she can be a badass is because she was genetically modified with Chozo blood, and can use the Varia suit which makes her a lot more than a human (while still retaining a human personality).
This seemingly random enumeration of things is more relevant than it looks. My first point is to reinforce that she was raised as a human.. and a very traumatized human at that. i.e. She's a nice little girl when very young. Like all little girls, she goes through puberty, etc... That's what I think is seen in a lot of Metroid: Other M. Now, you might not like this fact, since watching a teenager bitch is not something we all like. But the point remains, that nintendo wanted to make her human, and not just a personality-lacking superhero. If this doesn't suit you, go play superman.
On that same token, her father figure growing up most of her youth was a very particular old being (a Chozo) that can hardly be called a normal father. When she finds Adam Malkovich, she finds someone that will help her in her vengance, and also someone who gives her existence meaning and formation. She has literally nothing in the world, except the varia suit, her spaceship, and her education as a warrior. And maybe a lot of hate. Most humans, when young, need some direction in their life. And most orphans, seek for a parental relationship. Malkovich gives Samus both, as well as directing her into having some meaning. As far as I undersand (and please correct me here), other M shows samus as very young, barely reaching adulthood. Most people know that neither women, nor men are really adults during those times. Samus at this point, still needs some direction... a purpose. This is why she follows everything Malkovich says. After all, she has nothing else. She's not yet a badass because she's still emotional as a kid. And the formation of the federation makes her feel like she's a part of something. (Her admiration and respect for Malkovich is doubtfully ever gonna change. Probably in Metroid Prime, she's already a lot more serious and less emotionally "unstable".)
Nways, what is important, is that this would be true for a male character too. Unless it was a superhero-type character. Of course that she's human, and can disobey orders if she REALLY doesn't like them. And of course that the premise of why samus doesn't have her powers is silly. But Nintendo isn't painting a sexist image of samus. They are (at least attempting to) paint a realistic image of a girl who lost everything. Maybe it's too overly-dramatic for you. But it's not sexist.
My second point pertains as to why she is able to show a colder side when she's a bounty hunter. She HATES riddley, and almost everything she fights in most games... mostly because they took most of the things he loved. her suit and genetic modifications make her super-human and the ideal warrior. It's like a dude driving a tank, and fighting against a bunch of archers.. of course he's gonna act all badass . But when it comes to the individual inside.. it is still a human.
I guess my confusion lies in to whether the people calling this sexist actually know anything about the story. Or whether they are pointing an ignorant finger. I don't mind, since I'm used to ridiculous accusations of sexism. Like those aimed at Dune.
Sorry for the long post. (tldr responses are allowed :P)
The biggest issue for me, as a woman, was not that Samus showed an emotional response but the degree to which she was affected. I could understand how a selfless sacrifice by a baby could be disturbing even to a bounty hunter, especially since it suggests that Metroids are indeed sentient and are greater than galactic pets. But they laid it on a little thick. "The Baby's Cry?" The protective feelings toward the little fuzzy thing that eats corpses? Nuh-uh. Plus, the voice acting wasn't great and did make her sound a little weak.
I can understand her following Adam's orders too, but not to that degree.
Oh and the suit thing? Totally not necessary. Has her armor disappeared in any other game? Then why now?
To be completely honest, I personally believe that it's Team Ninja's fault for Samus becoming a whiny "little girl". Team Ninja might be able to pull off action games pretty decently but when it comes to creating characters with well, character, that is Team Ninja's biggest fault. And while I may get flak for this I'm fully under the impression that thanks to Itagaki san's influence that developer might be just a tad sexist. I'm just saying that when you compare Itagaki san's track record of games that have over endowed-under powered women it's kind of no surprise that Samus in Other M turned out the way she did.
If a game has a female character with feelings, it's sexist (Metroid). If a game doesn't have female characters, it's sexist (Brink). If a game has a black character, it's racist (Gears of War). If a game has black enemies it's racist (Resident Evil 5).
That's just how it works.
You mean when she dies? That's been there before. Zero Mission, Super and Fusion all had it." The biggest issue for me, as a woman, was not that Samus showed an emotional response but the degree to which she was affected. I could understand how a selfless sacrifice by a baby could be disturbing even to a bounty hunter, especially since it suggests that Metroids are indeed sentient and are greater than galactic pets. But they laid it on a little thick. "The Baby's Cry?" The protective feelings toward the little fuzzy thing that eats corpses? Nuh-uh. Plus, the voice acting wasn't great and did make her sound a little weak. I can understand her following Adam's orders too, but not to that degree. Oh and the suit thing? Totally not necessary. Has her armor disappeared in any other game? Then why now? "
If you mean outside of player death, then Zero Mission did it as well before the stealth sequence. Suit comes off, ship gets ambushed, crashes, and she loses the ability to put her suit on (maybe it burned the logo on her Zero Suit?)
" To be completely honest, I personally believe that it's Team Ninja's fault for Samus becoming a whiny "little girl". Team Ninja might be able to pull off action games pretty decently but when it comes to creating characters with well, character, that is Team Ninja's biggest fault. And while I may get flak for this I'm fully under the impression that thanks to Itagaki san's influence that developer might be just a tad sexist. I'm just saying that when you compare Itagaki san's track record of games that have over endowed-under powered women it's kind of no surprise that Samus in Other M turned out the way she did. "How many times does it need to be said that Team Ninja had nothing to do with the story or Samus's characterization? And Itagaki wasn't even part of the Other M project considering he left Team Ninja and had nothing to do with it.
@okoctothorpe said:
" The biggest issue for me, as a woman, was not that Samus showed an emotional response but the degree to which she was affected. I could understand how a selfless sacrifice by a baby could be disturbing even to a bounty hunter, especially since it suggests that Metroids are indeed sentient and are greater than galactic pets. But they laid it on a little thick. "The Baby's Cry?" The protective feelings toward the little fuzzy thing that eats corpses? Nuh-uh. Plus, the voice acting wasn't great and did make her sound a little weak. I can understand her following Adam's orders too, but not to that degree. Oh and the suit thing? Totally not necessary. Has her armor disappeared in any other game? Then why now? "
Motherhood is a common theme of the game. Samus's relationship to the baby Metroid, the relationship between MB and the Metroids and between Madeline and MB. It's a persistent aspect of the story. And Samus had every reason to feel for the baby, given that it gave its life to save hers.
And yes, her suit has disappeared in other games. Zero Mission had a lengthy gameplay sequence in which Samus lost her suit had to proceed without it, and as KingBroly stated, her death animations in Super Metroid, Zero Mission, and Fusion all had her lose her suit. She was also seen briefly without her suit in the beginning of Metroid Prime 3. And this is of course to say nothing of the times she was shown without her suit as a game completion reward.
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