Piracy will bring down PC gaming, IMO. thats how i see it though

There is only one way a video game can be sure of making money: Sales. Pirating takes away the only source of income for many games, as few Pirates will embark on multiple micro-transactions (if the game even has them).

Therefore there is no way to justify piracy, end of.

I've never understood why people who lament the DRM of modern PC games but have a problem with piracy don't just buy the game through Steam or whatever their preferred method and then pirate it as well. That way you've paid for the game to satisfy your moral quandary, but you still get a game that is actually playable in the fashion you want.

@Meowshi: Then there is nothing different from stealing a CD (unlikely though it may be) from a shop

@Ragdrazi said:

Copy right infringement is not theft. The closest analogy is trespassing.

Of course, that doesn't change the fact that it's illegal.

@Meowshi said:

@kingchris28 said:

There is only one way a video game can be sure of making money: Sales. Pirating takes away the only source of income for many games, as few Pirates will embark on multiple micro-transactions (if the game even has them).

Therefore there is no way to justify piracy, end of.

What if your justification is, "I don't care about their sales or them making money."

That's not a justification, that's a middle finger to the company.

I'm not making a statement for or against your choice, but you should you should at least frame it in proper terms.

@Meowshi said:

@kingchris28 said:

There is only one way a video game can be sure of making money: Sales. Pirating takes away the only source of income for many games, as few Pirates will embark on multiple micro-transactions (if the game even has them).

Therefore there is no way to justify piracy, end of.

What if your justification is, "I don't care about their sales or them making money."

That's not a justification, that's a middle finger to the company.

I'm not making a statement for or against your choice, but you should you should at least frame it in proper terms.

@Buzzkill said:

I would not steal simply because I didn't want to support an asshole publisher. I would simply not support them, and the studio is the one who suffers.

This is my feeling on the subject, if i feel a developer has crossed the line i wont buy their game, why would i download their game when it has pissed me off like that? I have plenty of other games i can buy that wont frustrate me.

@Meowshi: Then there is nothing different from stealing a CD (unlikely though it may be) from a shop

I can understand your frustration and sympathize. I can also understand why the publishers are doing what they are doing, but I believe there are less nasty ways of doing it. If I want to play Fallout 3 (yes I still play that) I have to be online to access my save data which sucks. There are times when my internet goes down and that means I can't damned well play it, at least not from my 'save' games.

I'd be much happier with a unique serial number that just needs to be activated once when you first install it (like activating windows etc) although I have no idea how much work and effort would be involved in doing that.

Piracy is the cause for all this grief in the first place so it should never be condoned.

@Slaker117: But compared to a product like a Vase, CD's are available in almost infinite supply at incredibly minimal additional unit cost to the vendors (at all levels of the supply chain). If you take a pirate as someone who would have bought a physical product this is more damaging due to the higher cost associated to the vendors of purchasing units of the video game which it must then sell at a sale price. (I how stretched I have made this situation, but it illustrates the point)

@Slaker117 said:

@kingchris28:The crimes are different, and thus they deserve different laws.

No doubt, I am arguing that they are both intrinsically illegal and deserve punishment, as with Theft the punishments for piracy should fit the nature and magnitude of the crime.

@Meowshi: See above, and, I disagree with restrictive things like the From Dust DRM but the publishers have tried many things to stop piracy which have all been circumvented, making it a shame that it has come to this level of stupid and user un-friendly DRM which can only hurt the PC platform. Unfortunately the consensus seems to be that it works at reducing piracy, so there is little chance of anything but an increase in this Online Connection Required DRM. Had pirates not continuously broken previous DRM in order to commit a crime this vicious circle would not have started.

I never said not buying a game does more in taking a stand than piracy. Neither thing does very much at all. Im just saying be a fucking man for once, you know. Have a little self respect.

Piracy will bring down PC gaming, IMO. thats how i see it though

The problem with your argument is that while company policy is shitty, you're also screwing over not-shitty people, like the devs who worked on the game and probably didn't have a say in the DRM at all. They depend on sales to keep their jobs, get projects greenlit, etc., and pirating their game fucks them over. I'd rather buy a game, support their shitty DRM policy, and support the hardworking devs as well rather than pirating the game, screwing over shitty DRM policies in a kind of invisible form of protest and fucking over the devs of the game as well.

@Dread612 said:

@iDarktread said:

Fuck stores that charge .99 per bagel, and then have the nerve to charge you for butter. Just steal that shit up, motherfucker.

No, because that would be called theft. If you stole a bagel, you are physically removing that bagel so they can no longer sell. In your example, pirating a bagel would be magically making a copy of one without depriving them of the original bagel.

Piracy does not equal theft. Just as theft does not equal robbery (use or threat of violence). Just as robbery does not equal 1st degree murder. Just as 1st degree murder does not equal involuntary manslaughter.

Piracy does equal copy right infringement. Having said that, most copy right laws tend to bend the customers over the barrel to protect the corporate interests. See ( DMCA)

that is the same BS (sorry) sort of resoning that people say UBI used with the DRM on From Dust ... while you may technically be right, pirating the game still is stealing and morally wrong.

I love how the only defense pirates can conjure up are countless analogies. It's really not that hard to understand. You pirate the game the devs/pubs don't get any money.  
If you've purchased a games and think the version that infringes on copyright law is somehow superior(Although I think everyone claiming the DRM in From Dust is some huge problem are just idiotic fools just looking for another reason to bitch at Ubisoft, because they're clearly the root of all evil right?)Then fine, you take whatever risks are associated with performing such an action, but if you're claiming just because a publisher did something you find slightly offensive you're somehow entitled to rob them of their profits AND play the same game you've been bitching about you really need to stop playing videogames. We'll be better off without you.

They made the game. They can put whatever DRM they want on it. You and I have the right, as consumers, to not buy it, not dictate what code they put in a game they made with their money. Games aren't life necessities. They are luxuries. You have a right to disagree with how they make a game, and what they put in it, and what DRM they use - but the only moral way to disagree with Ubisoft's position is to NOT BUY THE GAME. You don't have a right to pirate it. Your life will not be harmed in any measurable way by not having a video game, so you don't have a "right" to play it in a manner of your choosing and pleasing, seeing as YOU didn't make it, YOU didn't fund the development, and YOU are (probably) not an investor.

What gives you the right to demand that they make the game to your pleasing, when you didn't do a thing to help make it? They made the game with their own money and time. They get to do what they want with it, and if that includes the right to put crap DRM on their crap game, so be it. I don't like the Ubisoft DRM. I make my stand BY NOT BUYING THE GAME.

@BombKareshi:  Just because its a law doesn't make it just or moral. There are plenty example of laws that are immoral. See (huge list of plenty of shitty country's laws about how they treat woman, minorities, or people who question their government )  In America it wasn't that long ago that woman couldn't vote and minorities's votes counted 3/5s of white people's. That was the law. Was it moral?  Of course not.

Btw, make sure you never go over the speed limit when your driving, cause your technically breaking the law and you will be a morally rehensible excuse for a human being.

What I don't get is how this blog started as rage on Dust DRM and these randomly springs into saying go ahead and pirate BF3!! the actual fuck.
What has EA done to BF3 that could possibly justify piracy???

Like a dude earlier said it reminds me of the London riots Quoting some chavy prick 'these people Yeh have got nufin yeh' WELL GO AND GET A FUCKIN JOB AND YOU CAN GET SOMETHING THEN CAN'T YOU!

As many have pointed out,

making copies is not theft

. If I take a picture of you, I don't steal your image, I make a copy of it. Piracy is a felony, such as robbery or hijacking, committed aboard a ship or aircraft through the use of force. It's a popular thing to label non-violent, un-forced duplication as piracy, but it's akin to calling a scribe, copying one scroll onto a new one, a pirate. It's laughable.

Now, the fact remains, video game developers invest money to make games. If you want to support the company or companies involved in making that game, the easiest way is to buy the game. If one does not support the game developer, the game developer will cease to make games.

The key word is support. Just as fans support their favourite band by buying t-shirts and other merchandise, gamers need to support game developers if they want said developers to make more games. This is why I buy the Limited Editions of games that I want to support -- both because I get a bit of merchandise, and because it increases the sales margin of the games.

Pretending that the non-violent duplication of bytes within the circuitry of a computer is piracy, robbery or theft is absurd. We live in a digital age, with free and open information sharing. Computer bytes are just information. Trying to stop the flow of information is a useless endeavour.

Regardless, If you want something to exist, you have to support it, and support it with money.

We live in a digital age, with free and open information sharing.  Computer bytes are just information.  Trying to stop the flow of information is a useless endeavour.   Regardless, If you want something to exist, you have to support it, and support it with money.

@Dread612 said:

@BombKareshi:  Just because its a law doesn't make it just or moral. There are plenty example of laws that are immoral. See (huge list of plenty of shitty country's laws about how they treat woman, minorities, or people who question their government )  In America it wasn't that long ago that woman couldn't vote and minorities's votes counted 3/5s of white people's. That was the law. Was it moral?  Of course not.

So now your right to pirate software is on the same moral ground as women's right to vote? Man, you pirates are more zealous and conceited about devaluing other people's work than I thought. You want to play these developers' games so badly without paying a cent but you still want to feel good about yourself, so it must therefore be the law that is evil and unfair. The very law that was designed to protect the property that you want so badly!

Btw, make sure you never go over the speed limit when your driving, cause your technically breaking the law and you will be a morally rehensible excuse for a human being.

Nice use of hyperbole there. But two wrongs don't make a right. And for your information, I never speed anyway. I'd rather arrive a little later than potentially be responsible for someone's death.

But two wrongs don't make a right

@BombKareshi said:

Nice use of hyperbole there. But two wrongs don't make a right. And for your information, I never speed anyway. I'd rather arrive a little later than potentially be responsible for someone's death.

Yes that statement was a hyperbole. I was attempting to further illustrate the point how its really easy to break the law, that we all do it.
 

But two wrongs don't make a right

Its a nice sentiment, but unfortunately life can't be summed up in such simple statement.

EA are being a bunch of assholes with Origin so I'm not going to support BF3, but I'm also not going to pirate it. Doing something illegal is stupid, no matter how minor.

One, I don't genuinely believe that piracy has any significant effect on a company's bottom line, so I tend to be indifferent on the issue. Besides, the difference between pirating a game and borrowing it from a friend? Pretty much none. But pirating to fuck  "The Man" is a bunch of crap. It you have the means to download something, fine whatever. I chose to pirate old games that catch my eye that aren't sold via DD or retail because I don't feel like paying some inflated collector's price on eBay or Amazon, that doesn't hurt anyone. I certainly wouldn't pretend that I'm doing it for some noble cause or anything like that.

From Dust on PC has much worse issues than shitty DRM. The DRM can be bypassed with a crack, the other issues require a patch.

@Dread612 said:

@Dread612 said:

Btw, make sure you never go over the speed limit when your driving, cause your technically breaking the law and you will be a morally rehensible excuse for a human being.

Nice use of hyperbole there. But two wrongs don't make a right. And for your information, I never speed anyway. I'd rather arrive a little later than potentially be responsible for someone's death.

Yes that statement was a hyperbole. I was attempting to further illustrate the point how its really easy to break the law, that we all do it.

But two wrongs don't make a right

Its a nice sentiment, but unfortunately life can't be summed up in such simple statement.

Your right, because laws cant enforce themselves we should just fuck them.

I sure hope all the people who rage about piracy don't buy used games as that would sure put egg on their face.

I like to think myself as the person in charge of keeping those developers employed. So the moment I stop buying their games, is the moment they DIE. 
 
Y'know why Codemasters is still in the red? I didn't buy Overlord 2. Even when it's $5 @ Steam!

@sins_of_mosin said:

I sure hope all the people who rage about piracy don't buy used games as that would sure put egg on their face.

Im not sure if i understand, but if i do, and what your saying is that buying the game used is analogous to pirating it. your wrong.

because.

1. Pirating games is stealing.
2. Stealing is illegal.
3. illegal means wrong.

Buying used...

1. Is not stealing.
2. there for is not illegal.
3. and there for not wrong.

which ever way you try and justify it piracy is ALWAYS wrong. just because you don't agree with a companies DRM or something else upsets you. it does not give you a right to pirate there software.   
 
you are NOT entitled to anything

@sins_of_mosin said:

I sure hope all the people who rage about piracy don't buy used games as that would sure put egg on their face.

Im not sure if i understand, but if i do, and what your saying is that buying the game used is analogous to pirating it. your wrong.

because.

1. Pirating games is stealing.
2. Stealing is illegal.
3. illegal means wrong.

Buying used...

1. Is not stealing.
2. there for is not illegal.
3. and there for not wrong.

@Dagbiker said:

@sins_of_mosin said:

I sure hope all the people who rage about piracy don't buy used games as that would sure put egg on their face.

Im not sure if i understand, but if i do, and what your saying is that buying the game used is analogous to pirating it. your wrong.

because.

1. Pirating games is stealing.
2. Stealing is illegal.
3. illegal means wrong.

Buying used...

1. Is not stealing.
2. there for is not illegal.
3. and there for not wrong.

What I think he means is that when you buy used, the developer and publisher don't see any of that money, just like when some one pirates it. Which is true. I don't pirate or buy used because of that reason.

I think the only way we can ever truly get rid of DRM is to kill piracy outright. It's not a, "which came first, the chicken or the egg" argument. If people didn't pirate games at all, there would be no DRMs. It's as simple as that. We would be living in a world where games don't even have CD-Keys, let alone online activations.

But what I figured out in the world is that you can't have order without chaos.

@sins_of_mosin said:

@Dagbiker said:

@sins_of_mosin said:

I sure hope all the people who rage about piracy don't buy used games as that would sure put egg on their face.

Im not sure if i understand, but if i do, and what your saying is that buying the game used is analogous to pirating it. your wrong.

because.

1. Pirating games is stealing.
2. Stealing is illegal.
3. illegal means wrong.

Buying used...

1. Is not stealing.
2. there for is not illegal.
3. and there for not wrong.

Buying used steals money from the dev and pub because they don't get their share. If you are a champion of supporting the dev/pub then you best buy new because anything else is as you say stealing. And quite a few pubs sure do think buying used is wrong. Why you think they are coming out with MP keys and such?

You're both wrong. Dag because 'illegal' isn't synonymous with 'wrong'. Sins because buying a used copy is not the same as 'stealing' from the developer / publisher. They gave up any claim on their 'share' when they sold that copy of the game the first time.

I sure hope all the people who rage about piracy don't buy used games as that would sure put egg on their face.

Which is true. I don't pirate or buy used because of that reason.

@QuistisTrepe said:

@Jams said:

Which is true. I don't pirate or buy used because of that reason.

The developer doesn't get your money when you buy new either. You're supporting the retailer. When the game hit store shelves, the developer already got their money. The only way that a gamer can truly support the developer is to pre-order a game to drive up demand or buying their merchandise and any released DLC. That's it.

That's true for the most part. But is that true for places like Amazon? What about after the stores initial stock runs out and there is still demand for more? They have to order another batch of games right? They'll keep ordering the games until there's no more demand for a new copy. which means you still are supporting the developer by demanding a new copy even after release. I think that's how it works with steam to. They don't order a batch, they give a percentage of sales to the developer/publisher.