Is Germany on the brink of banning violent video games

The Germans have always been queasy about violent video games, but now things are getting a bit crazy, with the head of the German police union calling for a total ban on "killergames" (his word, not mine).  This is all because of 17 year-old Tim Kretschmer's recent shooting spree, during which he killed fifteen teenagers before turning the gun on himself.  Why the link to gaming?  Because one of Ketschmer's friends told the press they played sometimes played Counter Strike.

More on on the shooting: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5g-7Dbm7W0ADoXhfKS2O_sUrZu4NwD96S47T01

More on the German police union: http://www.gamepolitics.com/2009/03/22/head-german-police-union-calls-ban-violent-video-games

These type of stories make me very depressed.  Do video games really deserve to be tarred with the same brush as drug dealers, paedophiles and gang violence?  No, but that doesn't stop it from happening.

I have heard about that story. It is an unfortunate incident, and even worse that violent videogames are linked to the situation. I have never understood the link between violent video games and real life violence, especially considering that movies and TV shows depict violent acts in even worse ways, not to mention "M for Mature" is a much tougher rating for children to get hold on then "R" at movies. But, wait, we are talking about Germany. I don't know, it may be different.

Video games often become scapegoats because they're easy to blame. Your average Joe doesn't know shit about video games, so when school shootings and such happen, the police can just blame it on games. That way they don't need to put any work into finding the real reason these things happen.

I think they should blame the kid's parents or something.  How many people have played counterstrike?  Now this one kid snaps, and it just so happens he played counterstrike, so they think there's a connection?  This kid hates life and everyone in it, so he turns violent.  Even that kid isn't dumb enough to suddenly pick up a gun, shoot people, and then end his own life, just because he saw it in a video game.

Do video games really deserve to be tarred with the same brush as drug dealers, paedophiles and gang violence?  No, but that doesn't stop it from happening."

Didn't the German government recently classify games as art? So, what does this mean? That they are now going to be banning killerart? You know, I'm personally offended by some of Andy Warhol's paintings. Cambell Soup has nothing on Progresso.

It's populist media. This always pops up whenever there's a spectacular case of youth violence. Nothing's going to happen, and no one cares.  What's happening now is not special in any way. It's the same thing that has happened regularly in the past decade.

"It's populist media. This always pops up whenever there's a spectacular case of youth violence. Nothing's going to happen, and no one cares. "

"I have heard about that story. It is an unfortunate incident, and even worse that violent videogames are linked to the situation. I have never understood the link between violent video games and real life violence, especially considering that movies and TV shows depict violent acts in even worse ways, not to mention "M for Mature" is a much tougher rating for children to get hold on then "R" at movies. But, wait, we are talking about Germany. I don't know, it may be different. "

I'm from Germany and games are being cut so they are even getting a rating so they can be openly displayed / advertised.

As an adult in Germany that is looking for games that haven't been altered  to appease the government, you have two options:

Import it from Austria to get a version that is just like the german version except it is also uncut.

Or you import from England to get it and just hope that the german language is included on the disk. (With the region-free PAL specific current-gen that is pretty likely.)

As a minor if you want to get a game that has an over-18 rating you have to have an adult that is bying it for you. (Not much surprise here.)

Online shops will require a copy of a passport and some online shops are taking part in a "Age verification at the door" process that DHL is offering.

Germany is banned from my flat.

That unfortunate shooting is another case where parental responsability and the person's mental condition are being ignored while once again videogames are being used as a scapegoat.

I hope not, Becuasse I am going to gearmany this year and I want to buy some games!

poor Crytek is going to have to think about moving again

So it means that we won't see a glimpse of Mafia II again.

call me blind, but why would the police force have the proper credentials to determine if video games affect things like this?

Germany seems to be a little bit behind on psychological information, it's a shame too, because doing this will only make things worse creating an entirely new black market for criminals to work with.

"MDub said:

Do video games really deserve to be tarred with the same brush as drug dealers, paedophiles and gang violence?  No, but that doesn't stop it from happening."

Literally, even. There are politicians and populists (and there have been for quite some time now) who propose that  "Killergames", a word that has become very popular in German media in the last 5 years and is not even put into inverted commas anymore, should fall under the same laws as child pornography. "

"call me blind, but why would the police force have the proper credentials to determine if video games affect things like this? "

Freedom of Speech and Expression take another blow

Banning games here (in Germany) for good? I've read a scientific article which claims that 80% of the people actively involved in a killing spree ate bread before they went on killing. I guess that bread will be banned too.

I think so

"Banning games here (in Germany) for good? I've read a scientific article which claims that 80% of the people actively involved in a killing spree ate bread before they went on killing. I guess that bread will be banned too."

"SinGulaR said:

"Banning games here (in Germany) for good? I've read a scientific article which claims that 80% of the people actively involved in a killing spree ate bread before they went on killing. I guess that bread will be banned too."

It's a scientific fact that all serial killers drink water. I think it's about time we connect the dots here!"

"BiggerBomb said:

"SinGulaR said:

"Banning games here (in Germany) for good? I've read a scientific article which claims that 80% of the people actively involved in a killing spree ate bread before they went on killing. I guess that bread will be banned too."

It's a scientific fact that all serial killers drink water. I think it's about time we connect the dots here!"

It has been proven scientifically that 100% of people who commit crimes breathe air too! "

It doesn't matter, because Germans are fucking crazy as is.  They believed in following a tyrannical asshole that killed Jews, they believe in the band Rammstein, and they believe that they actually make good brew.  It's kind of sad, really.

"It doesn't matter, because Germans are fucking crazy as is.  They believed in following a tyrannical asshole that killed Jews, they believe in the band Rammstein, and they believe that they actually make good brew.  It's kind of sad, really."

"BiggerBomb said:

"jakob187 said:

"It doesn't matter, because Germans are fucking crazy as is.  They believed in following a tyrannical asshole that killed Jews, they believe in the band Rammstein, and they believe that they actually make good brew.  It's kind of sad, really."

...Dude. Sam Adams? ARE YOU MAD?!!?!"

Compared to Shiner Bock or Hefeweizen, it's dirt water."

If they do, then Germany just lost one potential tourist/citizen/person with contact at all with Germany/person with any respect for Germany.

"MDub said:

"The Germans have always been queasy about violent video games, but now things are getting a bit crazy, with the head of the German police union calling for a total ban on "killergames" (his word, not mine).  This is all because of 17 year-old Tim Kretschmer's recent shooting spree, during which he killed fifteen teenagers before turning the gun on himself.  Why the link to gaming?  Because one of Ketschmer's friends told the press they sometimes played Counter Strike.

More on on the shooting: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5g-7Dbm7W0ADoXhfKS2O_sUrZu4NwD96S47T01

More on the German police union: http://www.gamepolitics.com/2009/03/22/head-german-police-union-calls-ban-violent-video-games These type of stories make me very depressed.  Do video games really deserve to be tarred with the same brush as drug dealers, paedophiles and gang violence?  No, but that doesn't stop it from happening."

Sometimes played Counterstrike? No one SOMETIMES play Counterstrike. They are either out of it (and play TF2) or are diehard, that's just the rules.

I smell foul play.

"

Germany should worry about banning the incredibly disguistig porn it puts out. Was 2 girls one cup not from Germany?

Germany seems to have been in a desperate stint since WW2 to seperate them selves from violence in any way they can so as to keep their tourism up.

I was hoping to see another incredibly ignorant, unbelivably stupid WilliamRLBaker post in this thread. :D

Have you been there, William? Nowhere in the world will you find more examination, discussion and public display of the horror's of WW2 than in Germany. German students have to talk and learn about cause, history and effect  in a ridiculously elaborate way in every even remotely connected subject; the entire country is a guilt-ridden festival of whine, and is more than eager to tell everyone everything about it.

But of course, a Family Guy skit is where you learn the real deal. Naturally, it's impossible that anything happening in Germany might not be connected to WW2.

Some good posts there and as is often the case, your average gamer seems far better at rationalising these things than the press or authorities.  To assume teenagers (who are also frequent victims of negative press these days) cannot determine a video game from reality both over estimates a game's influence on the mind and under estimates child's ability to reason. And as someone who used to enjoy a good weekend's heavy drinking in my local town centre, I can honestly say I've never seen so much violence as when a group of lads get pissed - I even have a few scars to prove it.

"I was hoping to see another incredibly ignorant, unbelivably stupid WilliamRLBaker post in this thread. :D

Have you been there, William? Nowhere in the world will you find more examination, discussion and public display of the horror's of WW2 than in Germany. German students have to talk and learn about cause, history and effect  in a ridiculously elaborate way in every even remotely connected subject; the entire country is a guilt-ridden festival of whine, and is more than eager to tell everyone everything about it.

But of course, a Family Guy skit is where you learn the real deal. Naturally, it's impossible that anything happening in Germany might not be connected to WW2."

That sucks. It's really weird how Germany's all for sex in videogames, but will ban violence in an instant. I don't really care for gory games, but this is just ridiculous.

If you knew any thing about germany you'd know that for a long time they've been on a rampent stint to distance them selves from any thing remotely nazi or war

I wonder, have their been any studies done on the effects of violent video games in the medical/pyschological fields?

I think violent video games is an easy scapegoat because we don't know anything about it (at least, I'm asuming the average person doesn't know anything about it). I play violent video games just like the majority of the people on this site and last time I checked, I haven't killed anyone. However, if studies were done that could find a significant link between how a child/teenager develops and violent video games, I might hold off a couple years on letting my children play those sorts of games.

The more technology seems to advance, the less freedoms we seem to have about choosing what we watch/read/play.

"

I wonder, have their been any studies done on the effects of violent video games in the medical/pyschological fields?

I think violent video games is an easy scapegoat because we don't know anything about it (at least, I'm asuming the average person doesn't know anything about it). I play violent video games just like the majority of the people on this site and last time I checked, I haven't killed anyone. However, if studies were done that could find a significant link between how a child/teenager develops and violent video games, I might hold off a couple years on letting my children play those sorts of games.

The more technology seems to advance, the less freedoms we seem to have about choosing what we watch/read/play.

"

Labaratory studies have linked short-term aggressive behaviour to exposure of violent media. What this means is: A group that has been shown violent media will be more aggressive short-term than a control group that didn't watch violent media. (This is watching short clips, I haven't seen any studies done that involve commercial games. There is a small flash game that is used to determine your racism though. But that's a tangent. ;-))

The problem with this kind of evidence is, that the impact of this in the field hasn't been established. You might conclude that your child will be more aggressive if you walk in while he is playing a violent shooter.

On the other hand there is an interesting study about the overall effect of violent media in society. Gordon Dahl has supervised a study that looks at crimes committed vs. violent block buster movie releases.

Listen to an interview with NPR. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=18045578

I know this is an old post, but it seems Germany's thinking of not only banning the sale of violent games, but also the development of them.  That would scupper Crytek.

http://kotaku.com/5281489/german-pols-push-to-ban-development-of-violent-games

Yea, it's worth bumping now because it seems like it really is on the brink of happening now.

I heard that Germany is the biggest PC gaming nation in Europe, and this would be a major blow.

Dood, this is why I live in America.

3 words Germany 'Sucks to be' add a 4th 'you'

Anyone else find it ironic that a country who's "military" once killed 6,000,000 Jews wants to ban a video game because it's violent?

This is pretty funny.

Hitler killed 6 million Jews but never played a single video game.

what happens to leipzig?

The shooter was a member of a gun club. That's where he learned to shoot. Nothing against gun ownership, but clearly, it would have been a lot harder to kill all those people without a gun and the the training he had at the gunclub. So who's to blame?

• The gun industry?
• The law - permitting anti-social kids to have access to guns?
• The schoolsystem - for not integrating the person into society properly?
• The gunclub - for training him?
• Or his family and friends, for not doing anything beforehand?

• Maybe he was a weak student, and didn't see a future for him, that he would be able to bare.
• Maybe he hasn't a great personality and bad looks and girls weren't into him, so he was sexually frustrated
• Maybe he had no friends and was desperatly lonely
• Maybe he has lost his faith in whatever he believed in
• Maybe he was bullied
• Maybe he was disrespected
• Maybe he was dumped

• All the the hard to bare work, that's necessary, but badly paid, will be a shared workload, in order for no life to be lived in pure desperation
• Everybody is guaranteed sexual favors and company for his/her being part of society, no matter the personality and looks
• Everybody is required to spend some leisure time with his fellow citizens
• Every event, that might upset a person, will lead to an active confrontation. Everybody must share their feelings openly.