two reasons jrpgs suck

meow.  meow is the word that i use right now.  why?  because that's what feels right, and you should always do what's right until it leaves abrasive scabs where you don't want them.  then you should back off until it heals, or seek medical attention.

i'm watching vinny and jeff's endurance inauguration for devil summoner 2.  i don't like jrpgs.  1.  too much exposition in the stories.  i've watched 10 minutes of this thing and all i've seen is lame FMV and shameless exposition.  rather than "so and so has trained and trained and trained for many years in this place by so and so who is the last remaining villager from blah blah blah that was burned down by such and such," why not show us a FMV of that happening?  no narration, just things happening to our hero, and our hero reacting appropriately.  that's what we call character development.  2.  random battles and weird systems.  persona 4 didn't suffer from random battles, but the whole fusing on certain dates during certain weather to get the right kind of persona is too much trouble for me.  i'd rather earn levels and shit by grinding my ass off (diablo, WoW) or use of clever strategy (fallout 3, oblivion).  i don't like an avatar fighting my battles for me either, while we're on persona.  i thought being a rpg hero was about YOU being the bad ass?  details. 

FF7 (why should we use roman numerals--are the FF games special for some reason?) has random battles, and they annoy me when i can't save wherever i want.  i like to explore, and a game like FF7 makes a dungeon take agonizingly long just because you want to open some chests.  yeah, i'm being lazy, but games are about entertainment, so if i'm not entertained, then that's enough to stop playing.  also, the music change and screen transitions annoy me.

which isn't to say oblivion and fallout 3 aren't hella flawed rpgs.  they are.  they just have flaws i don't mind.

Now, while I agree with the gist of your points, and acknowledge the flaws in the genre, did you just imply Oblivion and Fallout 3 require clever strategy?

The points said more about why YOU dont like JRPGs, which is not the same as "JRPGs suck". Its understandable if you dont like jrpgs (i dont like Oblivion, or most any first-person games) but that doesnt mean that first person games suck, just that they dont fit my taste

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

There is more strategy involved in turn-based games than in any western RPG.

Whaaa Whaaa I don't like JRPGs. Well newsflash, a lot of people do and noones forcing you to go out and buy them.

Also, enough fucking western games use Roman Numerals what makes them special?! It's easy to pick up on a (frankly, idiotic) point and throw it as a flaw. You argue that Final Fantasy is pretentious for using roman numerals, I can just as easily argue that you are equally as pretentious and stuck up for bringing up such a pointless design choice as an overbearing flaw.

Don't like JRPGs? Fine, I fully support your opinion. But listen to Red.

Well, it's your opinion dude, I love JRPG's. You see? Opionion is not a fact.  Plus, there is more strategy in most JRPG's then in Oblivion and Fallout 3

Not all JRPGs are in the way you described. Many don't have random battles. Many don't have menu driven combat but instead action based. Etc. And of course, even games that do have these elements, well, as others have said, don't suck. Get off your high horse.

The only good JRPGs for me are Pokemon and Mother. The rest are a load of pretentiouscrap. Final Fantasy VII is one of the most boring and badly written games I've ever played in my life. But whatever, each to their own.

The above thread comments have already established that while you have a right to dislike JRPGs, everyone else has an equal right to enjoy them.  That is the only relevant fact necessary in this discussion.

 What confuses me though is your second grievance against the genre.

2.  random battles and weird systems.  persona 4 didn't suffer from random battles, but the whole fusing on certain dates during certain weather to get the right kind of persona is too much trouble for me.  i'd rather earn levels and shit by grinding my ass off (diablo, WoW) or use of clever strategy (fallout 3, oblivion).  i don't like an avatar fighting my battles for me either, while we're on persona.  i thought being a rpg hero was about YOU being the bad ass?  details.

I'm not a huge fan of random encounter battles ether, but not all JRPG's suck because of them.

I think you got a little confused with the Endurance Look they posted, it was a quick look of the game but since it was an hour long they called it the Endurance Look. Well that's what I took from it anyways, they even said that they don't think they could actually really get into the game or at least it's not something they could play together like they did Persona 4. Anyways, like everyone else was saying that's just your personal preference and not a fact. I think that the game mechanics like random battles can work in some games while being extremely annoying in others. For instance in a game like Pokemon you know where you will get into random battles and where you won't so you are able to avoid it and anticipate it. But in a Final Fantasy game me walking three feet and then fighting something that was previously nonexistent on the map seems out of place and can get annoying depending on the frequency of the battles. Even then, that one mechanic does not make the game suck nor does it mean me disliking that mechanic means that everyone should as well.

I agree with everyone else in this thread.

JRPG's are totally a chore. I play them because I like bad anime apparently, and that's all they really are. Bad anime with some gameplay tacked on. Lost Odyssey and Enchanted arms combat on the other hand are actually pretty tactical and enjoyable.

Strategy in most traditional JRPGs is present, if you can't see it that's your problem.

Most of it is in how you build your character and set up your party.

Just because the bulk of the strategy happens before you get into combat doesn't mean its not there. Try playing Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne without employing a lot of thought and strategy, it simply won't work, unless you take full advantage of the abilities offered to you properly, you won't be able to get through the game. Leveling up lots simply won't do it like in a lot of games, and there is no 'best team' or 'best setup' either as your need change from location to location.

Goddamn it I have had to say it numerous times before and now I'm going to have to say it again...

"Different strokes for different folks, nothing more and nothing less."

I am not a huge fan of J-RPGs, or at least Final Fantasy, but Persona 3 and 4 are awesome enough that I really don't care.

I don't understand what this topic is good for, should we change our taste now, according to the opinion of a guy called rectum? (even if it was fluffy bunny)

Do you intend to do something exciting like time traveling to the year 1997 to stop Squaresoft from releasing FFVII? Mind you he's bashing a 12 year old game and then compares it to fallout 3 that came out 6 months ago. 
Is this topic for people who want to talk about "not liking" JRPGs or Final Fantasy?

Are you a princess, is this your party where you can troll when you want to?

There are a lot of great RPGs that use gameplay just as a vessle for the story and other games are the opposite.
The whole Mother/Earthbound franchise would be shit without the story.
And Monster Hunter would be shit without the gameplay.
The angsty spiky haired protagonist with epic adventure in a land far far away is the bald space marine of japan so dont consider all JRPGs good.Sometimes unique gems come out aspecially the FF franchise.

You should never have to grind in a game.

What is the point of all this talk?  OP is clearly just angered by the horrible storytelling of Devil Summoner 2 (I actually fell asleep to it last night). His first  "point" was an observation and second one was an afterthought of that. And even if they were well thought out points there really is no point in talking about them. All you get is some people who love the genre raging and obviously still loving the games and some people who agree just because they never liked the genre. In the end nobody gets nothing. And even if some poor guy who was telling himself that he loves the genre actually changes his mind what is the point of that? Now he just can't enjoy this genre. What's good in that? Do you really need all this negativity and hate? Do you guys really wake up in the morning thinking "Damn those people who enjoy something that I hate!"? Save yourself some nerves and stop caring.

P.S.
That was pretty much Louie CK's bit about people who hate gay people. I just made it longer and not funny. Check him out if he is in your area. I wish I could but it seems that American stand up doesn't work here very well.

To be honest, even to me, Devil Summoner looks kind of ergh....

I had never been a big JRPG fan my whole gaming life, gave a few Final Fantasy's a chance over the years but the random battles, turn based gameplay and grinding always put me off a bit.  Then last year I decided to give Lost Odyssey a shot for $10, and ended up really loving it.  That game is as traditional as a JRPG gets for the most part, very similar to games that I just couldn't get into previously.  So I don't think you can really generalize an entire genre and say it flat out  "sucks", its just the stuff you've played so far hasn't been for you.

JRPGs were at their prime in the 90s. Now, this isn't the case. It's a shame that the Japanese developers don't step out a little bit more.

JRPGS FTW.

Another thing I'd like to add is that many JRPGs don't require any grinding whatsoever. What they do require, as previously stated in this thread, is a good strategy that'll allow you to beat a boss at your current level. The only time that grinding can be seen as something necessary is when you're going up against a boss/enemy which is much stronger than the final boss of the game, but even then, people can find ways to defeat them at extremely low levels.

"Another thing I'd like to add is that many JRPGs don't require any grinding whatsoever. What they do require, as previously stated in this thread, is a good strategy that'll allow you to beat a boss at your current level. The only time that grinding can be seen as something necessary is when you're going up against a boss/enemy which is much stronger than the final boss of the game, but even then, people can find ways to defeat them at extremely low levels.

systech said:

JRPGs were at their prime in the 90s. Now, this isn't the case. It's a shame that the Japanese developers don't step out a little bit more.

This statement could be applied to a variety of different genres."

Ohh yeah, my apologies I misread your post.

>i don't like an avatar fighting my battles for me either, while we're on persona.  i thought being a rpg hero was about YOU being the bad ass?

brb, going into tron