'Democracy' is a means of electing the people who compose a government, and in some cases, whether particular laws should be passed; but it is not a form of government. A government's form is dictated by its constitution, its common law tradition, or by its supreme ruler, none of which are ever composed 'Democratically'. Even in the case of governments giving their citizens the opportunity to vote on a Constitution (a la the EU), if they don't like the referendum returned by the people, they'll just ask them the question till they give the 'right' answer. Democracy is a vacuous term, and certainly not an object of political value in its own right.
Why did I post this? Mostly to do with the two threads comparing democracy and monarchy. While Monarchy is a form of government, democracy can still exist underneath that though. (Proof of that is the much-esteemed British Parliament.)
We all know masturbatory political discourse is the most entertaining thing about this website, right?
Democracy isn't a form of government
Voxel said: You're not a form of government. Your face isn't a form of government. [more]
I feel the need to respond to natetodamax's important input:Your face's mom's preferred form of government isn't a form of ... [more]
Giant Bomb, your one stop source for intelligent discussion. ;D
the dictionary disagrees with you:
Democracy is joke. Just look at how Darth Sidous does it in the star wars movies/novels/comics or how Dart Caedus does it in the legacy novels. Minus the force trickery all democracy will be converted to a communist type reigm. Sadly any form of leadership is easily manipulated by the greedy or power hungry. If enough effort and education is used.
And yes i did just use star wars to define world politics. Star Wars is a way of life bitches ^_^ b
the dictionary disagrees with you:1 a: government by the people ; especially : rule of the majority b: a government ... [more]
Also, neither of those definitions speak to the structure or form of government, so you're not entirely right. Just because you found a couple of definitions of the word 'democracy' that have the word 'government' in the body text doesn't mean that my point that 'democracy' is a formless concept is negated.
The fact that the members of parliament are elected 'democratically' is but a small part of how the government is composed. Considering that the executive is unelected, half the legislature is unelected, and the judiciary is entirely unelected.
'Democracy' is a means of electing the people who compose a government, and in some cases, whether particular laws should ... [more]
i am very aware that democracy is not a form of government.
'Democracy' is a means of electing the people who compose a government, and in some cases, whether particular laws should ... [more]
I like to think he means Democracy is not ideal, but you've got to stick with what you got until something better comes along.
@donwoogie: Whoa now, don, I ain't the subject of Lennon's "You say you want a Revolution"I was just saying democracy ... [more]
PS: Anyone heard about Proportional Representation possibly getting introduced in the UK?
lilburtonboy7489 said: the dictionary disagrees with you:1 a: government by the people ; especially : rule of the majority b: ... [more]
Structure and form are synonymous in the political and philosophic sense, if we're talking about definitions, Burt. And when we're talking about political philosophy, which we are in this thread (And we're also making a bunch of your ______ jokes, though that seemed to stop) we need to consult, not just any old web-based dictionary, but a dictionary of philosophic terms.
Take, for example, my Oxford Dictionary of Philosophy (ISBN 0-19-861013-0), under the heading democracy, is the following text:
democracy (Greek, rule by the people)Now this is a pretty long-winded meditation on the origin of the word democracy, and how it's applied to day in a philosophic and political sense, but there are a couple key words to be pointed out, primarily 'mechanisms' and 'hollow', both of which tie into the point I'm trying to make about democracy. It is not a form of government, but a mechanism of government. It is how the ranks of legislators and executives are replenished, it is how injustices are rationalized, and it is hollow unless some non-democratic entity gives it form, and the example pointed to in this definition is the sphere of economics. People who allegedly adhere to the general principle of 'sovereignty of the people' will harness the economic output of the people to give their own conceptions of democracy form, but on their own they are empty.
In Greek thought, rule by the citizens in general (nevertheless excluding women and of course slaves) in contrast to government by the rich and aristocratic. In modern society sovereignty of the people in general, expressed not directly by a vote on individual questions, but through representatives. Questions arise whether various mechanisms ensure that decision-making authentically answers to the people, or serves their interest (see also general will). The problem of delimiting a democratic constitution encounters these and other difficulties; critics suggest that political democracy is hollow unless accompanied by power in other spheres, especially the area of economics.
Why can't we just be friends, Burt?
shhhhhh dick chenny might hear you. he'll kill us all. once he got his first taste of blood, his thurst can never be quenched.
Wow , I just can not believe you said that . Why do you think many consider United States of America as the number one country ? That is simply because USA is the greatest democracy in the world and even though the American people can not choose every person of power by voting , their ability to choose their governor and president is quite enough . Democracy has proven to be effective and there are millions of examples that can back this up .
This thread has nothing to do with the efficacy of democratic mechanisms of governments, but to illustrate that it is not formal, in the philosophic sense of the word. See my above post on that issue).
This thread was posted in response to three threads sardonically taking stabs at Nigeria's, Britain's and America's 'forms' of government. 2 of them seemed to imply that democracy is a form of government, which, as I've said, I have illustrated this is not the case.
Democracy is a form of government where everyone votes on each individual issue that comes up. No democracies exist today because that system is wildly impractical on a scale larger than the Greek city states where the concept originated (although maybe the internet will one day make democracy feasible again). The government of the united states is a democratic republic.
So you're wrong. Democracy is a real form of government, it just isn't used anywhere these days.
A government cannot be brought into existence democratically. It has never it happened, it will never happen. The will of the majority has never brought about a government. The will of a small but powerful minority has brought many governments into existence. After these non-democratic entities form a state, then they attach democratic mechanisms to their previously-existing structure to appeal to the subjects of that state -- that is, those people dwelling within the boundaries of the state, but the non-democratic form still exists overtop of those mechanisms.
A perfect example of this is suffrage not happening in the U.S. till the 20th century, or the European Union's most powerful body (the European Commission) created non-democratically, and then building an elected parliament underneath it to fill its legislative ranks.
Democracy is an impossible dream, that is, if we are to perceive it as a form of government that can exist on its own.
Please Log In to post.
Log in to comment