Why Your Opinion of The Dark Knight/Ledger's Performance is Wrong

I think heath ledger did a fantastic job but what put me off was Christian Bale's voice when he was in the batman costume. I can understand why he would need to alter his voice but why make him sound like an old grizzled heavy smoker? It doesn't make him seem any more bad ass and it just takes me out of the movie every single time he opened his mouth.

After all that I just want to say that I pretty much agree with you on Heath Ledger. I didnt like his movies for the most part other then his portrayal of the Joker. It showed he could have done a lot more with his career and he deserves any award he gets for that performance. But dude I have to give him credit for Two Hands, that movie was kinda awesome.

"I think heath ledger did a fantastic job but what put me off was Christian Bale's voice when he was in the batman costume. I can understand why he would need to alter his voice but why make him sound like an old grizzled heavy smoker? It doesn't make him seem any more bad ass and it just takes me out of the movie every single time he opened his mouth."

I agree with this blog.

"Gunner said:

"I think heath ledger did a fantastic job but what put me off was Christian Bale's voice when he was in the batman costume. I can understand why he would need to alter his voice but why make him sound like an old grizzled heavy smoker? It doesn't make him seem any more bad ass and it just takes me out of the movie every single time he opened his mouth."

Dunno about "bad ass", but it's supposed to make him more intimidating."

Meh, everyone has a weird opinion, for example, I would regard myself as a pretty knowledgable horror fan, I watched Halloween(1978) for the first time the other night, and it wasn't too great, I couldn't see why it has this pedestol of being one of the best horror films ever. All down to opinion.

Anything as hugely popular as The Dark Knight is going to get a lot of hate and backlash. That's just the nature of pop culture.

Also, I disagree that The Dark Knight was his only good movie. He was in Brokeback Mountain and I'm Not There.

I didn't think he was special in anyway. I've seen much better performances in better movies. It's because he died that everyone is going crazy about this movie and his acting

I have heard nothing but good things about the film.

Hey Jakob, I've never heard of anyone not at least liking that movie, and I've never heard anyone not loving Ledger's amazing transformation and performance. Also you're a comic book  nerd apparently and you think Megadeth is as good as Metallica, so good day sir.

"Anything as hugely popular as The Dark Knight is going to get a lot of hate and backlash. That's just the nature of pop culture.

Also, I disagree that The Dark Knight was his only good movie. He was in Brokeback Mountain and I'm Not There."

I think Heaths performance was outstanding, the only other actor I could see coming anywhere near is Nicholson is The Shining. That's another film that has a lot of idiots bashing it because it isn't pin point like the original novel.

"I think Heaths performance was outstanding, the only other actor I could see coming anywhere near is Nicholson is The Shining. That's another film that has a lot of idiots bashing it because it isn't pin point like the original novel."

In defense of Brokeback Mountain, it was 1963, Wyoming. They were flawed characters, yes, but they were in a situation that you and I will probably never have to experience. It seems weird that you feel so strongly about the movie based on the actions of the characters in it. The Joker in The Dark Knight murdered people, but you still liked that character and film.

I'm not accusing you of being anti-gay, just wondering why it pisses you off so much that they were running off with each other beind their wives' backs while you embrace The Joker even though he does arguably worst things.

"Gunner said:

"I think heath ledger did a fantastic job but what put me off was Christian Bale's voice when he was in the batman costume. I can understand why he would need to alter his voice but why make him sound like an old grizzled heavy smoker? It doesn't make him seem any more bad ass and it just takes me out of the movie every single time he opened his mouth."

Dunno about "bad ass", but it's supposed to make him more intimidating."

jimbojones said:

"I didn't think he was special in anyway. I've seen much better performances in better movies. It's because he died that everyone is going crazy about this movie and his acting"

See, there it is.  Yes, there are better performances in better movies...BUT WHAT PERFORMANCES AND WHAT MOVIES?!  Everyone can say this unti they are blue in the face, but what do you mean by it?  You comparing it to Godfather Part II, because that movie is perfect and NOTHING can stand up against it.  One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest?  Big?  I mean, come on, man.  Be specific.  

And yes, we know that the reason people are going crazy about the flick and his performance is because he died.  You know what?  If he was still alive, PEOPLE WOULD STILL BE GOING CRAZY OVER HIS PERFORMANCE!!!  It's not like his performance CHANGED because he died.  It's the same performance he gave when he was alive.  You have to stop mixing the hype of his death with the performance he gave while he was alive and delivering it.  I, personally, would still the same thing now about his performance if he were alive.  "Motherfucker hasn't made a single worthwhile film besides The Dark Knight, and he knocked it out of the ballpark.  Hope his next movie doesn't suck, but it probably will."  Those would've been guaranteed words out of my mouth.  

Therefore, it would just have to come down to the fact that you personally don't like the film or his performance or Batman or whatever, and that's cool.  I'm just trying to understand why people need to spit the venom on the performance when...past comic book films...this happens to be a groundbreaking thing.  That's all.  Can you explain that?  Moreover, can anyone honestly name more than five worthwhile supporting actor roles in 2008 that weren't Tropic Thunder or The Dark Knight?

BTW, just wanna throw this in there...I would LOVE to see Downey Jr. get nominated for Tropic Thunder at the Oscars.  I would probably shit a fucking brick!

"

When I watched American Psycho I couldn't help but see the similarities between Bale's Patrick Bateman and Ledgers Joker
Especially when he says 'Keep your eyes open!' during his phone confession
Its quite similar in terms of tone and delivery  to when the Joker says 'Why so serious?'

Not saying that its a bad thing, just a bit interesting considering Christian Bales role in the Dark Knight

Christian Bale would of been an excellent joker aswell. So would of the guy from fear and loathing

I was about to mention Brokeback Mountain (no homo, lulz...) but you seem to have already covered that base....
I'm not going to go as far as to say that people who didn't like the film don't know what they're talking about, but let me put this scenario forth. As a 16 year old at an all-boys Catholic School (Again, no homo, lulz....) one of the biggest flicks around the lunchtable was the Dark Knight. Now, I thought it was an amazing film, among my top 10 of all time. My classmates for the most part agreed that it was a great fuckin' movie. The two kids that didn't like it, however, had curious arguments indeed. One of them argued that if Heath Ledger hadn't died that it wouldn't have gotten half of the hype that it got (I will get to Ledger's death in a moment...). The other kid said that anyone could have made that movie, but then again this same kid thought Postal and the Death Race remake were amazing movies.
As for Ledger's death, I hadn't seen a film featuring the actor before, and the Dark Knight remains my only Heath Ledger experience, so I wasn't really effected by the death at all. I was super fucking hyped for the movie because it was fuckin' Batman and the fuckin' Joker, and that the Joker wasn't a fuckin' clown anymore, but a sadistic anarchist. One of the best lines in the film is at the end, when the Joker is hung over Gotham upside down, and he says to Batman: "You thought I'd let the very battle for Gotham's soul rest on a fistfight with you?!". It was at that point when I realized that the entire film had completely defeated every cliche and vice of superhero movies before it.

I agree with what you said, and I loved this movie. I didn't know much about Heath besides "I'm Not There", "A Knight's Tale" and "Brokeback Mountain" before his death, and I only saw the first two (he was excellent in I'm Not There, btw).  He was obviously amazing in this movie and I am glad to see a posthumous award go to him and I hope him the best at the Oscars.   Aaron Eckhart was also excellent, and I was surprised at the quality of his performance.  I have no faults with the movie.  

Or... he is just keeping up with the whole secret identity thing and masking his normal voice."

Who are these people who are hating on the movie, or Ledger's performance?

There are two things I dislike about the whole Dark Knight thing:

1) The movie is too short for what is going on.  It feels rushed, especialy while watching it again

2)  The Dark Knight didn't do so much special in comparison to the 1st one.  I liked it more, but it wasn't that much better.  I feel like this serves as evidence that without ledger's death, the movie would've been swept under the rug like the first one.

You liked the The Core?!?!.......what?!!!?!?! The Core???

Sorry, I couldn't get past that.  It boggles my mind.

Just to warn you all ahead of time... ***SPOILERS BELOW! AHOY!***

Apparently Hedger has a really great performance in Lords of Dogtown. I still haven't seen it, though, but I remember him getting a lot of praise and recognition for it. I thought he was good in The Patriot, which was definitely one of his early roles. I'd like to see more of his other performances and probably will in the future. I thought Heath did a remarkable job as the Joker. He was intense, entertaining, crazy and yet we could understand and perhaps even relate to his logic. I thought he had some unforgettable scenes. I think what impressed me much is how well he stood up against Jack Nicholson's Joker. I greatly admire Jack Nicholson for countless reasons. I think he is indisputably one of the greatest actors of our time, not to mention one of the coolest celebrities around. Sure, his Joker wasn't very accurate, but that is no fault of his own. Still, I'm gonna say Jack had a better laugh. In fact, I think his Joker laugh may be the most hilarious laugh I've heard. It cracks me up everytime. I also think I would have liked to have seen Heath's Joker get a little more silly at times. I mean, c'mon, what The Dark Knight really needed was some more Prince. Oh yeah. On a side note, I don't know how you hate that Joker picture. I think it's one of the greatest promotional pictures ever released. I think it's actually kind of... beautiful... in sort of a demented way, I guess.

Aaron Eckhart is a fine actor. He really got my attention with Erin Brockovich. I also totally wanted to see No Reservations in theaters, probably moreso because Catherine Zeta Jones is a babe, but also because I wanted to see more of what Eckhart could do. Still haven't seen it, though, but whatever. The first time I saw The Dark Knight, I wasn't crazy about Two Face. In fact, I thought he turned pretty fast. I felt like maybe it would have been a little more convincing if Katie Holmes was still playing Rachel. Mainly because, well, I have a total thing for Katie Holmes and think she's ridiculously adorable and I'd probably go nuts too if I lost her in such a sadistic way. That's kind of irrelevant, though. Either way, the Joker's performance stuck with me more, and that's not because Heath is dead. Surely, though, it is undeniable that Heath's death has had a positive impact on the success of the film, but without the Joker being able to return, it definitely hurts later installments in the series.

Oh, wait.  So my opinion of Ledger's performance isn't wrong.

Gotcha.

When the first cast list was released I had a serious downer on, Heath Ledger had never really covered the sort of stuff I thought I could compate with the Joker. I went in on opening day expecting to see another Nicholson rendition of a lighter, more fun joker. What shocked everyone was the way he had in fact played it.

Now I'll be honest, only comics I have seriously kept up with are X-Men and Superman. The latter being the ones I collect with out fail, so I connected with some of the stuff you mentioned about Joker and other stuff made a little more sense. Back when I read the few Batman comics I could the Joker was never this jovial character that danced around and made everyone laugh. (Ok, he was to a point) But he was far more sadistic and unforgiving than he was ever on screen. But then it could be in part a sign of the changing times. No way would they have played the Joker like this back in '89 because films werent this dark, it would have been taken down a whole different street and classed as something it wasnt meant to be.

Ledger wasnt the typical choice and maybe that was a good thing, it was the shock value you got when going int here and seeing this clean cut actor play something so dark and out of his type cast.

Did The Dark Knight garner more attention and turn out bigger because of Heath's death? Yea I most certainly think so. As great as it was to have Bale return as Bruce/Batman, the big focus always seemed to be on Heath Ledger as the Joker. Then take a look at other movies where the same thing of one of the actor's for a big role dies. The Crow anyone? Of course that didn't turn out nearly as big as The Dark Knight, but it most certainly turned more heads because of Brandon Lee's death. Had he lived, that would not have happened. Would the movie been any less worthy of the praise it got, though? Definitely not. And the same applies to TDK: it got more attention, and turned more heads because of Heath's death, but the praise it got is--in my opinion--completely irrelevant to that event.

"I didn't think he was special in anyway. I've seen much better performances in better movies. It's because he died that everyone is going crazy about this movie and his acting"

WAAAIT your saying the this was heaths first good movie?!?!?!?!?!

obviously you never seen Broke back mountain XD

No you're wrong. Don't tell me my opinion is wrong, just because you don't think the same way as I do. I think Ledgers Joker would have been just as celebrated if he was alive, and in fact his death gives all these people who want to be different for the sake of being different an excuse to say they don't like Joker and that he's only popular because of his untimely demise. His portrayal was great. Up there with Johnny Depp's Jack Sparrow.

I'm not completely convinced that winning the golden globe will really change the way people see these movies. The award was given due to the same reason that most of the attention was given to Heath Ledger, because he died. I know, you pointed that out, but I think it extends to the award as in it's just a homage, nothing more. And even if it weren't, these prizes don't mean anything, most people that enjoy cinema don't give a crap about them. In the end it won't take long before people forget about this and return to seeing comic based movies as just "another of those".
I don't even believe the whole fuss around the movie and its subsequent box office success is due to its quality (a very questionable quality at that. Okay, I do admit that I'm one of those that did not enjoy the movie, but come on! From a technical point of view, it's not brilliant). Mostly, it was a junction of many different factor, including Ledger's death, that led to such a success.
I really doubt that, unless if it's another form of homage, that we'll see comic based movies receiving any form of recognition as like the golden globes (which, again, I don't believe mean anything). Like most things that come out with too much of a bang (and I think you mentioned this about Fable 2 and Farcry 2 in another topic) it takes time for people to start seeing what's wrong with it. But it's starting to appear, and it'll eventually be forgotten.

Dude whatever.  Heath Ledger made an AMAZING batman villain.  He was crazy, wierd, ingenious, and all the things that make a good enemy for Batman....he just didn't make a good Joker.  I loved his character, but at no point (other than because of the face paint or the purple suit) did it feel like he was the Joker we all know and love.  Here's the thing though:  The Joker was never really a great Batman villain.  I mean seriously, Riddler FTW.  I never liked the episodes/comics/whatever where the Joker was featured.  The Joker had his moments, but is overall pretty lame.  Ledger though....was fantastic.  A more accurate Joker portrayal would have sucked and the way the Dark Knight turned out is fantastic.

Heath Ledger's performance was amazing. The rest of the movie was amazing as well. I totally agree. While Ledger is not the greatest actor of all time, I still think he deserves an Oscar for his incredible performance, even though he wasn't the only one in top form. A lifetime achievement award? I don't think so.

Who hates The Dark Knight? I haven't heard anything contrary to praise. And the movie would have made just as much if he was dead or alive, its that good. Having actually read most of the Batman comics (doubt you have) his portrayal is perfect for a movie like this.

The reason Dark Knight might get a backlash - or the reason I don't think it's all that - is because at the end of the day, it's just another sophisticated thriller. You could swap Batman out for John McClane and the joker out for a terrorist with a bad german accent and it would be Die Hard 5. The boat thing, the hospital thing (which is pretty similar to a bit in Die Hard with a vengeance), the first 10 mins - it's all typical summer blockbuster schlock.

I'm not a uber comics nerd, but I'd like a Batman film to be a bit darker. I'm sick of seeing Batman as just a tough guy in a rubber suit, and I don't need the joker to be just another metaphor for terrorism.

"Who are these people who are hating on the movie, or Ledger's performance? 

"Did The Dark Knight garner more attention and turn out bigger because of Heath's death? Yea I most certainly think so. As great as it was to have Bale return as Bruce/Batman, the big focus always seemed to be on Heath Ledger as the Joker. Then take a look at other movies where the same thing of one of the actor's for a big role dies. The Crow anyone? Of course that didn't turn out nearly as big as The Dark Knight, but it most certainly turned more heads because of Brandon Lee's death. Had he lived, that would not have happened. Would the movie been any less worthy of the praise it got, though? Definitely not. And the same applies to TDK: it got more attention, and turned more heads because of Heath's death, but the praise it got is--in my opinion--completely irrelevant to that event."

Good post, being a huge comic fan with Batman being up there in my top 3, you knocked it right on the head. Not much for me to respond, nor do I feel like responding to the haters, I'll just quote some of your stuff that that I liked. Although I will say, it would've been better if he laughed a bit more. There were certain parts in the movie that I thought would've been a perfect time for his laughter.

They don't know just how fucking sadistic The Joker can be.  They've never read the Loeb/Sale stuff.  They've never read The Killing Joke.  They don't know how he tortured Jim Gordon by paralyzing his daughter in front of him. 

I'd say the fact that The Dark Knight is held among high between both the mainstream crowd AND the comic book crowd is a pretty good fucking indicator that someone is doing something right.

Offering some credibility to the genre of comic book-based films is something that we desperately need.

people who discounts this movie or Ledger's performance because of the running time, his death, the character, or whatever cockamamey excuse I can come up with.

Simply put, if you don't like the movie, then that's your thing.  However, don't disrespect something that is pushing the genre forward.  If you'd like, we can always go back to the way my previous list reads...

I think Ledger was fantastic as the Joker and his part would still be just as amazing had he not died. I think he easily earns the award.

Comic book fans would not have been "pissed if it was shorter" that is a failed analysis. 

I am a comic fan and I also thought the movie was way too long and they needlessly ruined the Two Face character w/ bad plot points.    TDK is a great comic book movie.. COMPARED to other comic book movies.  But sadly the general public has fooled itself into thinking "comic book movies are good now" because Iron Man was campy fun and TDK was a good james bond riff.  Xmen 3 was insultingly pointless, Spidey 3 was flat out one of the worst action movies of the past 10 years, Fantastic4 is Sex in the city + CGI, Daredevil,Electra... not even worth talking about... COmic book movies are just as bad as they always have been.  It just so happens we have like 3 or 4 in the past 20 years that were not awful.

The sad fact is they made Batman into James Bond w/ a growl for TDK, and HL's Joker + the Commish are what save the movie from being "didn't I just watch Bourne?"  Sure Batman has had tech and uses it a lot, but this whole bit about Batman spying on the world using sonar was just flat out silly.

^^^ I agree with you. These kids think that TDK is the messiah

I feel like too much was attempted in the movie.  Too much was crammed in.  You can tell the movie was heavily edited so that every last scene is as short as can be while having as much significance as possible.  Every scene is needed.  If the movie contained only one villain instead of two, then it could have been even better than it already is.  I was EXTREMELY disappointed that Two Face was killed off in such a short amount of time.  It would have been better to show Harvey's transformation into Two Face as the end of the movie, setting up a villain for the next movie like the joker card in Batman Begins.  As it is, Two Face was made out to be very little threat and only significant on a political basis.  That character deserved a much bigger role, one with its own movie.  I've got no problem with the length of a movie as long as it tells the story well and tells it the best it can.

Heath did a great job with The Joker though.  Even if he hadn't died, I'm sure quite a few people would have appreciated his performance of a well-envisioned Joker.

"The sad fact is they made Batman into James Bond w/ a growl for TDK, and HL's Joker + the Commish are what save the movie from being "didn't I just watch Bourne?"  Sure Batman has had tech and uses it a lot, but this whole bit about Batman spying on the world using sonar was just flat out silly."

I actually think Jack Nicholson did a better joker

"I actually think Jack Nicholson did a better joker"

"jimbojones said:

"I actually think Jack Nicholson did a better joker"

So what you mean to say is that you prefer seeing the over-the-top, cheesy Joker?  That is perfectly acceptable.  However, does that mean that Ledger's performance was bad?"

No, YOU'RE WRONG, JAKOB!!!