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    The Nintendo DS is a handheld featuring two screens, one of which is a resistive touchscreen. Four different models are available: the original DS, the DS Lite, the DSi, the DSi XL.

    How did the games industry get it so wrong with the DS?

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    oldschool

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    #1  Edited By oldschool

      Go to Source
       

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    If there's one commodity which the games industry isn't lacking in, it's pundits. The launch of every new product brings with it a flurry of comment, from the well-considered to the flatly biased, spouting from the mouths and keyboards of everyone from highly paid analysts through established journalists to prolific forum posters and bloggers. There's an ocean of opinion out there, although to be honest, you probably wouldn't want to swim in most of it.

    For professional commentators - be they financial analysts or writers, and including yours truly - this week marks one of our more egregious and shameful failures. It's a week when we should all, by rights, be standing up at our Pundits Anonymous meeting and admitting that we all, almost without exception, got the most important console launch of the past decade wrong. Some got it more wrong than others, certainly - but in the cold light of day, I struggle to think of a single well-known industry commentator who called the Nintendo DS correctly.

    The reason this week is important, of course, is because this is the week when the figures confirmed what we'd all expected for several months. The DS' installed base in the UK has bypassed the PlayStation 2. On this sceptered isle, at least, it's the most popular console in history. One in six people owns them - an extraordinary figure, even allowing for the fact that some people own more than one model.

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    If you can cast your mind back to the time period when the Nintendo DS was announced, it's probably with a mild sense of embarrassment - because in the pundits' defence, almost everyone else was lining up to heap scorn on the DS when it was announced. The heir to the Game Boy it may have been, but quite frankly, it looked mental. It was ugly and plastic-looking, with a bizarre two screen configuration and, most peculiar of all, a stylus - something more familiar to users of PDAs like the Palm Pilot than to gamers. Worst of all, it was underpowered, we thought - on a par with the ancient N64 rather than with more modern home consoles.

    The contrast with Sony's all-singing, all-dancing PlayStation Portable couldn't have been more obvious. Touted as a PlayStation 2 magically shrunk down into a sleek, glossy package, with a gorgeous widescreen display and convention console-style controls, the PSP felt like the device of the future. The markets agreed - Nintendo's stock plummeted as shareholders abandoned ship, convinced that the company had just made a fatal mis-step. In bars across Los Angeles that week, journalists and industry execs alike slurped mojitos and quietly questioned whether new Nintendo boss Satoru Iwata had lost his marbles.

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    In retrospect, this all seems quite funny - and it's also mostly forgivable, given the information which we had to work with. Everyone knew that gaming was slowly becoming more mainstream, but few people within the bubble of the industry quite understood the critical mass which had been reached in the preceding years. The Nintendo DS, in retrospect, wasn't just a great product with extraordinary potential - which most of us failed to see - it was also exactly the right product at the right time. There was a mass of people ready to try out gaming - they just needed the right hardware and software to tip them over the edge.

    Which, of course, leads on to that other factor in the DS' success - the factor which was genuinely invisible to us in Los Angeles that week. Equipped with Nintendo's usual line-up, the DS would have been a moderate success, since even upstream gamers quickly started to appreciate the console's unique attributes, leading to a variety of hugely successful core games on the diminutive device. However, Nintendo's true masterstroke wasn't the hardware alone - it was the leveraging of that hardware to deliver experiences which stretch the definition of games (leaving us toying with that unwieldy mouthful, "interactive entertainment") but which tapped in perfectly to the mindset of new consumers for whom the definition of "game" was less important than simply doing something fun and rewarding.

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    Nintendogs and Brain Training - almost pathetically simple compared to the complex concepts which are routinely employed by more traditional games, yet these are the games which created a genuine revolution in the industry. It doesn't matter that they're simple; you can say that "an idiot could have thought of that" until you're blue in the face, but the fact is, no idiot actually did. Nintendo did, and for a while, those simple concepts were enough to make company into Japan's second most valuable corporation, its market capital outstripping banks, property firms, heavy industry and giant media companies.

    They were followed by an avalanche of software, some of which simply aped the success of Nintendo's market leaders (take a bow, every unimaginative and unscrupulous executive who pushed a Brain Training style game out onto the market, hoping to capitalise on unwary consumers picking up rival titles by accident), but some of which helped to expand the DS out into new territories. From fitness assistants to interactive recipe books to language learning aids, the console sprouted a wealth of innovative software which capitalised on the lessons of interactive entertainment to improve a host of "non-gaming" activities.

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    Bitter core gamers, annoyed at the invasion of their sacred domain by a host of newcomers, occasionally dismiss the DS in the same terms as they do the Wii - it's your mother's console, designed for the "casuals" and with nothing to appeal to real gamers. They miss the point. The DS has something for everyone, successfully filling almost every niche in the market - and it's only by filling an enormous range of niches that a platform can ever truly become mass-market. Yes, the DS has fitness and brain training applications for the older generation, but it also has core games for the traditional market - and so much more besides. It has software for small children, for teenage girls, for language learners, for music fans, for tourists, for aspiring chefs and for everyone else in between.

    What have we learned, then, from the unexpected and meteoric success of the Nintendo DS? In broad terms, of course, we've learned that the games market is bigger than any of us imagined, and that the definition of a game (or of a control mechanism) is broader than many of us had allowed for. We have learned that disruptive hardware can turn this industry on its head just as effectively as it has done in other industries. We have learned that you underestimate the ingenuity of Nintendo's engineers and designers at your peril.

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    As we tuck into our humble pie this week, however, perhaps the most important lesson which industry pundits and execs alike have learned is this - that any forecast or prediction based entirely on factors within the existing boundaries of the industry is bound to be wrong. As the industry expands, it's vitally important to consider outside factors at all times - looking out at other sectors within technology and media, at consumer trends in other markets, at social factors, at the macroeconomic climate and at every other factor imaginable before making a judgement.

    The true failure in every prediction of doom for the DS was that they mostly consisted of gamers looking at the device and saying, "I don't like it, and nor do my mates" - without ever wondering what people who weren't raised on a diet of Quake and Tekken might make of it. This week's figures are a final, resounding demonstration of just how out of touch we, and our mates, actually were.

      
     

     
    This is perhaps the best piece of games journalism I have ever taken the time to read.  It eats humble pie with all the dignity that one could ever hope to read.  I remember all the Sony fanboys crowing about how Nintendo was dead and the handheld now belonged to Sony. I also remember the pain they endured and the denial they swum in as it became painfully clear that the DS was taking over the market. 
     
    I was right there at the beginning.  My confidence was high to begin with, to the point that I refused to wait for a local release in 5 months time and imported (at more cost than I realised) a DS phat from Canada.  It was a decision I never regretted, but truth be told, that first year was pretty slim.  It wasn't until the second year that my nervousness receded.  The first year didn't have the games I really wanted.  Now, with over 100 games in my collection   My Nintendo DS collection. , many of them my much loved JRPG, I am certain that the DS is the best console of all time, for the enjoyment it has brought me. 
     
    How did you view it all those years back?  Were you a doomsayer?  Did you never lose confidence?
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    AgentJ

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    #2  Edited By AgentJ

    Hey! You stole my format! *fist shake*
    No really, I couldn't say that I expected the DS to be as great as it has been when it started out either. I vividly remember looking at pictures of the device on a school computer when it was first announced, and being both stunned and dissapointed. What the hell? Two screens? What mess is this? I didn't even get one until over a year after it was released (got the red mario kart bundle) and it was only then that I realized how cool the DS actually was. Then, as more and more games were announced, and eventually came out, I started to understand that it was easily my favorite console. The DS truly does have something for every taste

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    Atlas

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    #3  Edited By Atlas

    It's very hard to predict true greatness like that. Remember 1998, in the NFL Draft, there were two quarterbacks that everyone was talking about; Peyton Manning and Ryan Leaf. One of those dudes was last year's MVP, is a top five candidate for MVP this year, and his team is 12-0. The other is retired, was sacked as a QB coach by West Texas University last year, and recently faced legal troubles involving burglary. Who knew in 1998 that those two players would have such different tragectories?
     
    Back on topic, I was very indifferent to the DS until last year when I actually got one, so I guess I should say I'm surprised at it's incredible success.

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    DrRandle

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    #4  Edited By DrRandle

    The DS is probably still my favorite hardware this generation. I've had to trade in a lot due to slim times, but when I get my shit together again, I really want to start collecting DS games and increase that collection back up. Glad to see I'm not the only appreciator of the system.

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    Claude

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    #5  Edited By Claude

    I have much respect for the DS. I'm not into "on the go" gaming, but I see the appeal. I can be a little jealous of the DS, they've got two Zelda games to the Wii's one and that was basically a port of a Gamecube game. I sometimes feel that Nintendo puts more effort into the DS than the Wii. Of course, next year looks pretty good for my little white box that plays video games.

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    Jimbo

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    #6  Edited By Jimbo

    I have a DS, I use it as an alarm clock.  I always buy Nintendo's handheld systems and then never use them because the games are ridiculously overpriced.
     
    I don't really recall people mocking the DS in the way that they (I) did, say, the Wii.  Still, Nintendo has gone after a market that isn't me and that's where they've found their real success, with their Nintendogs and Brain Training and Wii Fit and what not.  They still aren't commanding any of my time or game purchases, so I don't feel I was/am wrong to dismiss them as far as my gaming is concerned.  
     
    I admit I didn't expect them to be as successful as they have been; I underestimated the hypocrisy of non-gamers who have looked at gaming and gamers with contempt for as long as I can remember, then rushed out to buy Wii's and DS's as soon as it became 'cool' and socially acceptable to do so.  The DS is as much a fashion accessory as anything else - just like the iPhone.  Nintendo's marketing here in the UK has been both relentless and flawless (sickeningly so).

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    oldschool

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    #7  Edited By oldschool
    @AgentJ said:
    " Hey! You stole my format! *fist shake*No really, I couldn't say that I expected the DS to be as great as it has been when it started out either. I vividly remember looking at pictures of the device on a school computer when it was first announced, and being both stunned and dissapointed. What the hell? Two screens? What mess is this? I didn't even get one until over a year after it was released (got the red mario kart bundle) and it was only then that I realized how cool the DS actually was. Then, as more and more games were announced, and eventually came out, I started to understand that it was easily my favorite console. The DS truly does have something for every taste "
    When I copy/paste the article, it was a wall of text.  I wanted it to be easier on the eye.  That is when I remembered you, well, not you, though you are easy on the eye, but rather, your list thread.  Take it as a compliment  ^-^ 
     
    I didn't like the look of it when I first saw it and the longer it went on, the uglier the phat is.  I was afraid it would hold the system back as the PSP did look very swish.  On the other side though, I had no doubt that it would be an ugly duckling that would turn into the swan.  Never judge a book by its cover I guess.  I was sold on the 2 screens and the touch one instantly I saw it.  I immediately imagined what could be done and it has exceeded those thoughts.
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    spankingaddict

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    #8  Edited By spankingaddict
    @Atlas said:
    " It's very hard to predict true greatness like that. Remember 1998, in the NFL Draft, there were two quarterbacks that everyone was talking about; Peyton Manning and Ryan Leaf. One of those dudes was last year's MVP, is a top five candidate for MVP this year, and his team is 12-0. The other is retired, was sacked as a QB coach by West Texas University last year, and recently faced legal troubles involving burglary. Who knew in 1998 that those two players would have such different tragectories?  Back on topic, I was very indifferent to the DS until last year when I actually got one, so I guess I should say I'm surprised at it's incredible success. "
    thank God the colts picked peyton :)
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    oldschool

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    #9  Edited By oldschool
    @Jimbo said:
    " I have a DS, I use it as an alarm clock.  I always buy Nintendo's handheld systems and then never use them because the games are ridiculously overpriced.
     
    I don't really recall people mocking the DS in the way that they (I) did, say, the Wii.  Still, Nintendo has gone after a market that isn't me and that's where they've found their real success, with their Nintendogs and Brain Training and Wii Fit and what not.  They still aren't commanding any of my time or game purchases, so I don't feel I was/am wrong to dismiss them as far as my gaming is concerned.    I admit I didn't expect them to be as successful as they have been; I underestimated the hypocrisy of non-gamers who have looked at gaming and gamers with contempt for as long as I can remember, then rushed out to buy Wii's and DS's as soon as it became 'cool' and socially acceptable to do so.  The DS is as much a fashion accessory as anything else - just like the iPhone.  Nintendo's marketing here in the UK has been both relentless and flawless (sickeningly so). "
    Are the "non-gamers" hypocrites?   Perhaps they are just people who were finally catered for as they haven't been in the past?  It wouldn't be just the DS that brought them in, but maybe the mobile phone had a lot to do with it as well?  I don't know by the way, just conjecturing. In many respects, the name would have a lot to do with it.  As much as I loved my Gameboy and wasn't afraid to be seen paying it, I can't see how that would have worked if it turned out to be Gameboy DS.  Many adults associated Gameboy with kids and the name of it was a big part of it.  Just being a DS avoided that mental imagery and allowed it to be more grown up. 
     
    As for the fashion accessory angle, I can't see that as well.  If that were the case, the the PSP and PSP Go would be THAT item as they look far cooler.  True, the change to the Lite from phat was a HUGE help as the Lite is way more appealing visually.  The marketing is right on pitch and that is a good thing even if the celebrities they use do nothing for me AT ALL.  Olivia Newton-John and Delta Goodrem for us - yawn.  Time for a hardcore advertising campaign with some real celebrities not from the past or a crappy soap opera.  Wouldn't sell enough though I guess.  Maybe some extreme sports people and a slick ad?
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    Fallen189

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    #10  Edited By Fallen189

    I can't get enough of my DS, but sometimes I wish stylus only games, or ones heavily focused on it would go towards the Dpad a bit more. Zelda games are a prime culprit
     
    But then again, I'm on my second DS lite now, which is slowly dying. My original one had both shoulder buttons stop functioning due to overuse, and the same just happened to the L button on my latest one.
     
    The DS is tremendous.

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    AgentJ

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    #11  Edited By AgentJ
    @Jimbo: You call DS games overpriced, yet you still buy 60 dollar PS3/360 games? I don't think you are one to talk hypocracy. As far as gamer games on the DS, you have to look no further than here
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    Jimbo

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    #12  Edited By Jimbo
    @AgentJ said:

    " @Jimbo: You call DS games overpriced, yet you still buy 60 dollar PS3/360 games? I don't think you are one to talk hypocracy. As far as gamer games on the DS, you have to look no further than here.  "

    DS games are ~$50 here, PC games about the same and PS3/360 about ~$65.  Considering the development and budgets involved with the latter, yes I generally consider DS games overpriced (as I do the majority of games for that matter).
     
    There is no value in Oscar Mike gaming to me.  If I could go pick DS games up for a more reasonable $15 or $20 I'd probably have dozens of them, but if it's a straight choice between a new, full-price PC game and a DS game, 99 times out of 100 the PC game will win.  
     
    I enjoyed Phoenix Wright and Prof. Layton, but I'm still conscious of the fact they're barely one step removed from flash games and that always puts me off shelling out $50 for the sequels.
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    AgentJ

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    #13  Edited By AgentJ
    @Jimbo said:
    " @AgentJ said:

    " @Jimbo: You call DS games overpriced, yet you still buy 60 dollar PS3/360 games? I don't think you are one to talk hypocracy. As far as gamer games on the DS, you have to look no further than here.  "

    DS games are ~$50 here, PC games about the same and PS3/360 about ~$65.  Considering the development and budgets involved with the latter, yes I generally consider DS games overpriced (as I do the majority of games for that matter).  There is no value in Oscar Mike gaming to me.  If I could go pick DS games up for a more reasonable $15 or $20 I'd probably have dozens of them, but if it's a straight choice between a new, full-price PC game and a DS game, 99 times out of 100 the PC game will win.    I enjoyed Phoenix Wright and Prof. Layton, but I'm still conscious of the fact they're barely one step removed from flash games and that always puts me off shelling out $50 for the sequels. "
    Fair enough, I take back what I said. I guess where you live it is a little cost-prohibitive. In the US DS games are half as much as console games. Then again I buy most of my games used anyway.
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    Diamond

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    #14  Edited By Diamond

    I think the writer of the article gleams some of the wrong things from the success of the DS.  For one, many in the industry did expect the DS to do well.  The PSP was Sony's first handheld console, Nintendo had been dominating for decades since the Gameboy against superior hardware.  To an extent even Nintendo didn't expect the DS to be the success it was.  They themselves considered it a third leg.
     
    Control mechanisms aren't the point in this case.  It's the lowest cost gaming platform, it has the most casual / entry games, on a medium (handheld platform) that's the most casual friendly.  It's the most portable handheld, able to be played in many more places and for longer than a PSP.

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    Willy105

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    #15  Edited By Willy105

    Both the DS (and it's copycat the Wii), took the industry by surprise, because the industry was (and for the most part still is) in their own little world of hardcore gamers. While inside of it, you are always safe and happy, but once you get away from that, you see a world so scary and unfamiliar it's uncanny.
     
    I did my best to adapt to both sides, but it's hard. I've gotten pretty far, to the point where I can enjoy both a hardcore and casual game equally, but some games (like Brain Age) I simply can't get behind.

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    wolf_blitzer85

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    #16  Edited By wolf_blitzer85

    I miss my DS :(

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    Brunchies

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    #17  Edited By Brunchies

    I used to be very arrogant towards the DS but after I played some games on it, I realized how wrong I was about the system.  

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    Synthballs

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    #18  Edited By Synthballs
    @wolf_blitzer85 said:
    " I miss my DS :( "
    This. :(  I'm here for you brother.
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    oldschool

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    #19  Edited By oldschool
    @Jimbo said:
    " @AgentJ said:

    " @Jimbo: You call DS games overpriced, yet you still buy 60 dollar PS3/360 games? I don't think you are one to talk hypocracy. As far as gamer games on the DS, you have to look no further than here.  "

    DS games are ~$50 here, PC games about the same and PS3/360 about ~$65.  Considering the development and budgets involved with the latter, yes I generally consider DS games overpriced (as I do the majority of games for that matter).  There is no value in Oscar Mike gaming to me.  If I could go pick DS games up for a more reasonable $15 or $20 I'd probably have dozens of them, but if it's a straight choice between a new, full-price PC game and a DS game, 99 times out of 100 the PC game will win.    I enjoyed Phoenix Wright and Prof. Layton, but I'm still conscious of the fact they're barely one step removed from flash games and that always puts me off shelling out $50 for the sequels. "
    DS games are $50-60 in my land and 360/PS3 games are $110-$120, so the gap is quite large.  Don't get me wrong Jimbo, I won't pay $60 for a game either.  In fact, the most I have paid for a DS game, new, on release is $45 for Pokemon Platinum.  Generally speaking, $40 is the most I pay and $20 to $30 be it clearance or promotional pricing, is far more the norm.  I think they are a big step from flash games though, I think that isn't very accurate.  If you are a bargain shopper, you will always be able to keep adding games to any library at no more than 50% of normal retail.  I rarely pay more than $60 and never more than $75 (very rare at that price) for a home console game.
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    AgentJ

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    #20  Edited By AgentJ
    @oldschool: I think when he said "flash games" he meant specificly the two games he enjoyed, those being professor layton and Phoenix Wright. 
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    oldschool

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    #21  Edited By oldschool
    @AgentJ said:
    " @oldschool: I think when he said "flash games" he meant specificly the two games he enjoyed, those being professor layton and Phoenix Wright.  "
    Having not played either as flash games, my opinion - worthless  ^-^ 
     
    @Brunchies said:
    " I used to be very arrogant towards the DS but after I played some games on it, I released how wrong I was about the system.   "
    I think a lot of gamers would change their view if they lowered the "hardcore' thing for a while.
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    iamjohn

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    #22  Edited By iamjohn

    I don't think the success of the DS is anything you could've predicted.  It was a gamble, simply put, and that's why Nintendo was preparing another handheld and said from the beginning that the DS was a "third pillar" so they could walk away from it as fast as they could if it didn't pan out.  It's definitely a product of a smart pricepoint and putting out a redesign at the right time, since I have no doubt in my mind that the DS Lite being a sleek yet rugged piece of hardware is what made the DS as successful as it is.

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    oldschool

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    #23  Edited By oldschool
    @iAmJohn said:
    " I don't think the success of the DS is anything you could've predicted.  It was a gamble, simply put, and that's why Nintendo was preparing another handheld and said from the beginning that the DS was a "third pillar" so they could walk away from it as fast as they could if it didn't pan out.  It's definitely a product of a smart pricepoint and putting out a redesign at the right time, since I have no doubt in my mind that the DS Lite being a sleek yet rugged piece of hardware is what made the DS as successful as it is. "
    Makes you wonder exactly what the new GBA looked and played like.  Surely they had one ready to go if the DS failed and it may have even been ready for a production green light. 
     
    The redesign to Lite is the biggest reason for the explosion in sales in my view as well.  The phat was no fashion icon and sadly, it matters to the more non-traditional gaming market.
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    gla55jAw

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    #24  Edited By gla55jAw

    I bought a DS Lite when It came out and picked up New Super Mario Brothers. I played it a little and it sat on my shelf until I sold it and picked up and XBOX 360. 
     
    Fast forward to a few months ago and myself being a huge Dragon Ball Z fan, I saw that Attack of the Saiyans was coming out and expressed intrest in picking up a DS again. While doing research I found out that the DS had a massive amount of JRPG's. I never knew there were so many!  
     
    So what did I do? I picked up a DS lite again (not the DSi because I want to be able to play GBA games too). I picked up Chrono Trigger, DBZ Attack of the Saiyans, Blue Dragon Plus, Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow, Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin, Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings and Final Fantasy CC: Ring of Fates, and I'm going to buy a pokemon game soon too! I probably won't have the time to play most of these for a while but I love having games available to me to play when I'm ready, expecially JRPGs. 
     
    I feel like the game selection now is just too amazing to pass up. When I first purchased my DS there really wasn't much I wanted to play, same goes with my PSP (which I also sold for lack and games and also just recently purchased again because playing FF VII on the go is awesome!). 
      
    Oldschool, I must say your collection is awesome. What are some your recommended RPGs? I still need to pick up FF III and IV since I'm a huge FF fan, but I'm always looking for a good RPG to play.

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    oldschool

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    #25  Edited By oldschool
    @gla55jAw said:
    " I bought a DS Lite when It came out and picked up New Super Mario Brothers. I played it a little and it sat on my shelf until I sold it and picked up and XBOX 360.  Fast forward to a few months ago and myself being a huge Dragon Ball Z fan, I saw that Attack of the Saiyans was coming out and expressed intrest in picking up a DS again. While doing research I found out that the DS had a massive amount of JRPG's. I never knew there were so many!   So what did I do? I picked up a DS lite again (not the DSi because I want to be able to play GBA games too). I picked up Chrono Trigger, DBZ Attack of the Saiyans, Blue Dragon Plus, Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow, Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin, Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings and Final Fantasy CC: Ring of Fates, and I'm going to buy a pokemon game soon too! I probably won't have the time to play most of these for a while but I love having games available to me to play when I'm ready, expecially JRPGs.  I feel like the game selection now is just too amazing to pass up. When I first purchased my DS there really wasn't much I wanted to play, same goes with my PSP (which I also sold for lack and games and also just recently purchased again because playing FF VII on the go is awesome!).   Oldschool, I must say your collection is awesome. What are some your recommended RPGs? I still need to pick up FF III and IV since I'm a huge FF fan, but I'm always looking for a good RPG to play. "
    For something really different, see if you can pick up The World Ends With You.  There is nothing like it anywhere. 
    The Dragon Quest remakes (IV & V - VI is coming) are excellent if you like that old school RPG. 
    Dragon Quest Monsters Joker is a lot like Pokemon in many ways and thoroughly enjoyable, as is Dragon Quest Heroes: Rocket Slime. 
    All the Final Fantasy is great and I see you have XII and CC:RoF.  I also love Tactics A2, which of course is strategy heavy.  Don't discount Chocobo Tales as I enjoyed it. 
    Heroes of Mana was excellent (for me, some others not so). 
    Children of Mana is okay. 
    Disgaea DS will consume you if you enjoy it.   
     
    I can't genuinely recommend Lost Magic, Spectrobes, Contact or Lunar Dragon Song. 
     
    I am still very keen on Shin Megami Tensei, Fire Emblem,  Kingdom Hearts, Might & Magic, Nostalgia, Sukoden Tierkreis, Super Robot Taisen OG, Valkyrie Profile, Phantasy Star 0, Luminous Arc (1 & 2), Dark Spire and Atelier Annie.  There are still more RPG on my list, but even my spare cash doesn't reach for all of them. 
     
    The only reason I have a PSP is for the RPG.   Sony PSP Collection.  I don't anywhere as many as I would like (most of my games were bought VERY cheap as they are always in the clearance bin), but I enjoy playing the DS so much more.
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    deactivated-57b1d7d14d4a5

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    I haven't had a hand-held since my old Gameboy color, but if I weren't already drowning in lake of PC games, and if a Wii weren't above the DS in my list of "things I would purchase if I had the time and money", I'd definitely buy it rather than a PSP.

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    #27  Edited By oldschool
    @Bellum said:
    " I haven't had a hand-held since my old Gameboy color, but if I weren't already drowning in lake of PC games, and if a Wii weren't above the DS in my list of "things I would purchase if I had the time and money", I'd definitely buy it rather than a PSP. "
    You can probably get a used DS Lite pretty cheap and be selective about some of the games available, which many are very cheap.  Then use it for those gaps of time when not able to PC or home console.  I buy far more than I will ever have time to play, but I genuinely expect to play them when I buy them.  A case of the mind not being logical.
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    gla55jAw

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    #28  Edited By gla55jAw
    @oldschool said:
    " @gla55jAw said:
    " I bought a DS Lite when It came out and picked up New Super Mario Brothers. I played it a little and it sat on my shelf until I sold it and picked up and XBOX 360.  Fast forward to a few months ago and myself being a huge Dragon Ball Z fan, I saw that Attack of the Saiyans was coming out and expressed intrest in picking up a DS again. While doing research I found out that the DS had a massive amount of JRPG's. I never knew there were so many!   So what did I do? I picked up a DS lite again (not the DSi because I want to be able to play GBA games too). I picked up Chrono Trigger, DBZ Attack of the Saiyans, Blue Dragon Plus, Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow, Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin, Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings and Final Fantasy CC: Ring of Fates, and I'm going to buy a pokemon game soon too! I probably won't have the time to play most of these for a while but I love having games available to me to play when I'm ready, expecially JRPGs.  I feel like the game selection now is just too amazing to pass up. When I first purchased my DS there really wasn't much I wanted to play, same goes with my PSP (which I also sold for lack and games and also just recently purchased again because playing FF VII on the go is awesome!).   Oldschool, I must say your collection is awesome. What are some your recommended RPGs? I still need to pick up FF III and IV since I'm a huge FF fan, but I'm always looking for a good RPG to play. "
    For something really different, see if you can pick up The World Ends With You.  There is nothing like it anywhere. 
    The Dragon Quest remakes (IV & V - VI is coming) are excellent if you like that old school RPG. 
    Dragon Quest Monsters Joker is a lot like Pokemon in many ways and thoroughly enjoyable, as is Dragon Quest Heroes: Rocket Slime. 
    All the Final Fantasy is great and I see you have XII and CC:RoF.  I also love Tactics A2, which of course is strategy heavy.  Don't discount Chocobo Tales as I enjoyed it. 
    Heroes of Mana was excellent (for me, some others not so). 
    Children of Mana is okay. 
    Disgaea DS will consume you if you enjoy it.   
     
    I can't genuinely recommend Lost Magic, Spectrobes, Contact or Lunar Dragon Song. 
     
    I am still very keen on Shin Megami Tensei, Fire Emblem,  Kingdom Hearts, Might & Magic, Nostalgia, Sukoden Tierkreis, Super Robot Taisen OG, Valkyrie Profile, Phantasy Star 0, Luminous Arc (1 & 2), Dark Spire and Atelier Annie.  There are still more RPG on my list, but even my spare cash doesn't reach for all of them. 
     
    The only reason I have a PSP is for the RPG.   Sony PSP Collection.  I don't anywhere as many as I would like (most of my games were bought VERY cheap as they are always in the clearance bin), but I enjoy playing the DS so much more. "
    Cool Thanks Oldschool. I'll definetly take a look at some of those.
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    jeffgoldblum

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    #29  Edited By jeffgoldblum

    I love my DS. In fact I just bought four games for it yesterday!
    Retro Game Challenge
    Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow
    Mega Man ZX
    Mega Man ZX Advent

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    WinterSnowblind

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    #30  Edited By WinterSnowblind

    I was definitely very skeptical of the DS.
     
    But in our defence, the technology wasn't proven at this point.  Most touchscreen based technology you'd see worked very badly, and other systems like the game.com had attempted it in the past and fell flat on their faces.  There was also the fact they were attempting to appeal to more casual based gamers from the get go, and I don't think anyone ever believed they'd be able to break into that audiance.  Fortunately for Nintendo, the interest was definitely there, the technology held up remarkably well and it had a good amount of "real" games released too.

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    #31  Edited By oldschool
    @WinterSnowblind said:
    " I was definitely very skeptical of the DS.  But in our defence, the technology wasn't proven at this point.  Most touchscreen based technology you'd see worked very badly, and other systems like the game.com had attempted it in the past and fell flat on their faces.  There was also the fact they were attempting to appeal to more casual based gamers from the get go, and I don't think anyone ever believed they'd be able to break into that audiance.  Fortunately for Nintendo, the interest was definitely there, the technology held up remarkably well and it had a good amount of "real" games released too. "
    True, only people confident about Nintendo would have kept the faith.  It was quite a risk.  In all honesty, I had this horrible feeling that Sony would win as they did with the PS1 & PS2, simply on a fanboy basis.  They must have been working on the system for quite a while before they released it, just to get it to work correctly.
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    #32  Edited By Linkyshinks

    That article is refreshing, thanks for posting. I do remember that first year of the DS very well, it was indeed slim, most of it use to me then was being able to playing GBA games, with a degree of novelty. (top screen ^^).  I was still confident it was going to come good in terms of software, that was never in doubt for me, but I must admit I was sceptical the hardware would make a big impression as others have in the past have. Because of it's design. The first DS was never going to have mass appeal, the DS Lite changed that, it made the DS appear to be a handheld which was truly designed for everyone, while also making it far more convenient to carry. Games like Animal Crossing DS and Nintendogs played a HUGE role also.. 

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    #33  Edited By sjupp
    @Jimbo said:
    " DS games are ~$50 here, PC games about the same and PS3/360 about ~$65.  Considering the development and budgets involved with the latter, yes I generally consider DS games overpriced (as I do the majority of games for that matter).  There is no value in Oscar Mike gaming to me.  If I could go pick DS games up for a more reasonable $15 or $20 I'd probably have dozens of them, but if it's a straight choice between a new, full-price PC game and a DS game, 99 times out of 100 the PC game will win.    I enjoyed Phoenix Wright and Prof. Layton, but I'm still conscious of the fact they're barely one step removed from flash games and that always puts me off shelling out $50 for the sequels. "
    @oldschool said:
    " DS games are $50-60 in my land and 360/PS3 games are $110-$120, so the gap is quite large.  Don't get me wrong Jimbo, I won't pay $60 for a game either.  In fact, the most I have paid for a DS game, new, on release is $45 for Pokemon Platinum.  Generally speaking, $40 is the most I pay and $20 to $30 be it clearance or promotional pricing, is far more the norm.  I think they are a big step from flash games though, I think that isn't very accurate.  If you are a bargain shopper, you will always be able to keep adding games to any library at no more than 50% of normal retail.  I rarely pay more than $60 and never more than $75 (very rare at that price) for a home console game. "
    The price-differences still strikes me.
    However, I believe Jimbo has pretty much said whatever I was going to say. Well said too.
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    #34  Edited By mracoon

    I was also on the DS train from the beginning. I got my day one DS from America as luckily my brother was on holiday there at the time so he could pick one up for me. Haven't regretted that descision once and neither have I thought about upgrading, at least not until they're only making DSi games.

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    #35  Edited By ryanwho

    I don't ever remember any DS doom and goom. It didn't seem like an especially risky venture considering the two addons didn't take anything away. If they took off the buttons and just had a stylus, that would have been reason to worry. As it was, at worst neither the screen or the stylus catch on and we have slightly better looking GBA games that put their map on the second screen if that. That was my perception. I do also remember people thinking the PSP would be way bigger, for the same reason the Game Gear was supposed to be bigger, but I never bought into that either.

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    #36  Edited By oldschool
    @Linkyshinks said:
    " That article is refreshing, thanks for posting. I do remember that first year of the DS very well, it was indeed slim, most of it use to me then was being able to playing GBA games, with a degree of novelty. (top screen ^^).  I was still confident it was going to come good in terms of software, that was never in doubt for me, but I must admit I was sceptical the hardware would make a big impression as others have in the past have. Because of it's design. The first DS was never going to have mass appeal, the DS Lite changed that, it made the DS appear to be a handheld which was truly designed for everyone, while also making it far more convenient to carry. Games like Animal Crossing DS and Nintendogs played a HUGE role also..  "
    I think we all saw a massive change in attitude with the Lite plus Mario Kart, New Super Mario Bros, Animal Crossing and Nintendogs.  You do have to wonder what might have been if not for the Lite.  
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    #37  Edited By VisariLoyalist

    I reject your logic and replace it with mushrooms and plumbers.

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