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SuicidalSnowman

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SuicidalSnowman

467

Forum Posts

7963

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41

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Reviews: 8

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#1  Edited By SuicidalSnowman
@LordAndrew said:
" There is no clear definition of what makes a game immersive. Sounds like something that would make a great blog, but not an entry on the wiki. "
I suppose this is true.  Is a definitive definition required for all concepts on the site?  Also, I think a better definition could be developed. See below. 
 
@TMThomsen
said: 
 Bollocks. Every game attempts to draw the player into it's universe. "  
 
Good point.  First of all, immersion is certainly a sliding scale.  Every game is probably, to some extent, immersive, just like every game has, to some extent, a learning curve or difficulty level. 
 
More importantly, though, that sentence needs to be re-written. 
 
Perhaps something more along these lines: 
 
Immersion is a general term that refers to a game's ability to create a convincing fantasy world environment.   
 
What is this missing? Does it need more on the measure of degree? More on the means of accomplishing this? 
 
Or perhaps the approach is wrong, and the concept should be "Fully Immersive" which is a positive statement, and therefore a game can either be fully immersive (or at least strive to be) or not fully immersive.
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SuicidalSnowman

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#2  Edited By SuicidalSnowman

Ok, so that all seems pretty good to me... but let me know what you all think. 
 
I will come back later tonight and add in other things, I never got to limited menus, interactive cutscenes, etc, and it isn't formatted. 
 
I think the real problem is that people just go and attach a million and one games to these topics without thinking.  I think most videogames have one of these elements, the real measure comes from the time and the use. 
 
For example, Resident Evil uses typewriters for saving, which at the time was surely immersive, but is it enough? 
 
COD:MW uses hyper realistic guns, but has regenerating health 
 
Interested to hear the community thoughts 
 
*EDIT 
Ok, I just edited the wiki article, and left a note for the reviewer (only at 968 points). But I have 4 edits pending from the last couple days, so I think they are a little backed up

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SuicidalSnowman

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#3  Edited By SuicidalSnowman

I feel like this is a fine concept, the article just needs some serious re-writing, and much less games attached.  The other problem is that "immersion" is defined by topics such as ambient noise, persistent character damage, no hud, in game fiction, etc. which all have their own concept pages. 
 
What about this:  
Immersion is a concept that refers to a game's attempt to draw the player into the game world.  This can be accomplished in a variety of ways, including: 
Having no HUD 
Persistent Character Damage 
Ambient noises 
Interactive cutscenes 
Integrating Tutuorials 
Fictional companies/brands 
 
Immersion is a somewhat nebulous concept that is subjectively defined, however it is an important concept in the development of games.  Initially, video games lacked the sophistication and technical capability to fully immerse the player in the game world.  For example, no one will ever confuse a game of Pong with anything that resembles reality, as it is flat, contains odd sounds, and lacks depth. 
 
As games developed and technical capabilities increased, however, the potential for a fully immersive game experience developed.  Game developers began to use new graphical and story telling techniques to pull the player farther into the game world.  An early example of this is Myst for PC systems.  Myst used photorealistic, pre drawn backgrounds to give players a beautiful and detailed world to explore.  Myst also used a first person perspective, and offered players minimal instructions, helping to pull the player into the game. 
 
After this, however, immersion somewhat stalled as an important concept.  While games continued to improve, with better 3d graphics and sounds, there was little emphasis on increasing realism.  For example, Super Mario 64, a shining example of overall game design, technical capabilities, and almost universally well received, still always felt like a video game. The player was tasked with objectives such as obtaining enough "stars" to open new worlds, received tasks from Lakitus through scrolling speech, and fought Bowser by hitting him three times. 
 
Shortly thereafter a leap forward in immersion came from sports games.  Baseball, football, and hockey games all took major leaps on the Playstation and Saturn to improve their presentation.  This meant liscencing agreements with EPSN to use actual television graphics to display scores and stats.  Also, NHL games began dropping the health meter during player fights.  Football games began showing Jumbotron replays in-between downs.  Game reviews noted that these games were getting closer to watching the real thing. 
 
This development began to spread to other genres as well.  In the shooter genre, games such as SOCOM increased the level of realism.  SOCOM used highly technical terms to refer to weapons and military equipment, for example you did not obtain a "Rifle" but an M16.  Additionally, players could only carry limited equipment and ammo, as opposed to previous games where players could pull out seemingly endless weapons.  Also, there were no healthkits, and one or two bullets would completely incapacitate the player.  Finally, SOCOM asked the player to kill as few enemies as possible, in keeping with the real-world implications. 
 
Games such as RPGs began to see similar developments.  For example, Final Fantasy X developed a full world with a complete backstory, political tensions, and social mores.  Although the heavy emphasis on story is common in RPGs, FFX is a good example of the PS2 generation taking it further.  FFX, for example, reduced the HUD during random battles, making it appear that the player had simply run across dangerous monsters, rather than engaged in a strategy game.  Also, the mini game integration increased. Blitzball was created a sport, and NPCs would reference the sport throughout the game.  
 
In the current generation, this has reached new heights.  GTA4 is a good example of this.  In GTA4, the game world is fully developed to be a realistic and immersive city.  The city is gritty and dirty in places, much like in real life.  The player has a cell phone on which he can receive or make calls, and a computer that can actually access fake internet sites.  The radio plays both music and advertisements.  These all help pull the player into the game world, and, in a sense, forget he or she is playing a game. 
 
Techniques 
No HUD - Removing the heads up display, or HUD, from the game helps increase immersion.  One way this is accomplished is through better player modeling.  For example, in many games the player character will accurately reflect damage, by limping or appearing increasingly bloodied, in order to remove the health bar from the screen. 
 
Increased Minigame integration - As mentioned above, minigames are typically an area where the player may feel pulled out of the game world, and reminded this is still a video game.  A way to combat this is better integration.  In Final Fantasy 8, for example, weapon upgrades were not accomplished through random loot drops or treasure chests.  Instead, players located manuals in the game world that provided instructions on how to upgrade their weapon.  They then gathered items such as screws that logically would be used to improve guns or swords.  Players then took these weapons to gun shops, which may or may not be located in a particular city, as one would expect in a real world. 
 
Fictional Brands - Games may improve the players immersion through the use of fictional brands.  This increases the lore and backstroy, and makes the world feel more believable.  For example, GTA: Vice City has advertisements on the radio.  Some of these products can also be seen advertised on billboards.  Eventually, you begin to really feel that Vice City is a real location, with consumer products and companies trying to sell them.  (See Fictional Car Brands for more) 
 
Hyper-Realism - Hyper Realism is a concept that can create integration. This refers to a game's attempt to follow real world physics and rules as closely as possible.  Many times this comes in the form of sports games.  Madden NFL 10, for example, made it much more difficult to recover onside kicks or successfully convert fake field goals.  These issues arose when players discovered that by using the kicking meter the same way every time, they could predict an onside kick.  In real life, however, this is impossible.  Therefore, Madden increased the randomness to make it less likely to occur, and more like real life.  Strategy decisions must be handled as they would in real life. 
 
It is worth noting that this frequently appears in shooters as well.  Some games realistically do not have health kits, and one or two bullets is fatal, as would be the case in real life.  Guns have realistic recoil, meaning that it is difficult to use a high powered, fully auto, rifle.  This fits with real life, where high powered rifles often have burst fire, just for this reason. 
 
Ambient Sounds - Ambient sounds are not part of the game's soundtrack, and not a 'sound effect' in the traditional sense of the "Boing" noise when Mario jumps.  Ambient sounds may be car horns from the nearby round, birds chirping in the forest, or NPCs having conversations when the player passes.  These help make the game world feel more alive and real. 
 
Presentation - As noted above, sports games that use trademarked graphical presentation, such as from ESPN, help give the feel that the player is participating in a game on live television, not playing at home. 
 
Notable examples: 
Shenmue: (I need some help here..) Shenmue was an attempt to create a fully realized virtual world, in the form of an RPG.  This game included a virtual kitten that the player could raise, giving the player mundane, but realistic, jobs such as forklift operator, and an average joe main character.  While this game never caught on due to both the Dreamcast's spectacular demise and the overwhelming job of creating a second world, it is an excellent case study in full immersion. 
 
Virtual Boy: Nintendo's attempt to increase immersion by cutting out outside distractions, the Virtual Boy system provided 3-D graphics and surround sound.  It failed, however, due to the lack of color and impracticability of the overall design. 
 
Second Life: An online MMO type game, Second Life attempts to be a virtual world that replaces the real world.  It has powerful creation tools to allow players to build anything they want, and repopulate the world their own way.  Second Life never really caught on, at all. 
 
Playstation Home: Playstation home attempts to provide PS3 users with a virtual "home" when they log into the online network.  Some notable attempts at immersion include arcade machines that only allow one user at a time, with the other users forced to stand in a queue and wait their turn.  Obviously, while pulling in some of the hassles of real life is great for immersion, it is poor for user enjoyment, and Playstation Home remains the butt of many an industry joke. 
 
The Sims: The sims attempts to simulate life itself, with players being forced to complete mundane, daily tasks such as using the toilet, eating, and going to work on time.  The Sims also attempts to track progress in a manner similar to real life, through wealth, job status, and number of friends. 
 
Major Figures: 
Will Wright: Will Wright is a legend in the simulation game design world.  Creator of Sim City, The Sims, and most recently, Spore, Will Wright's games attempt to accurately simulate real world situations, and draw the player deep into their world.  His games have complex simulation models that attempt to reflect real life.  For example, while a Casino in your city may bring in tourism dollars, it will also bring in criminals, forcing the player to make a tough choice. 
 
Brian Eno: Brian Eno is a sound designer who does work on game soundtracks.  Brian Eno is famous for working with Ambient Sounds which set the mood perfectly, increasing immersion. 
 
Phil and Dan Houser: The heads of Rockstar games, they are responsible for the Grand Theft Auto series, which pushes the limits of immersion through realistic world design, ambient sounds, and fictional in game brands. 
 
Related Terms: 
The Fourth Wall: The Fourth Wall is a video game concept that refers to the barrier to total immersion.  No matter what, when playing a game you are using a controller to manipulate a virtual world.  Similarly, basic tasks like saving can pull the player out of the game.  Games that attempt to "Break Down" the Fourth Wall may do things like persistently exist even when the player logs off, or may read the player's memory card and recite a list of their favorite games without asking. 
 
The Uncanny Valley: The Uncanny Valley is the horrible intersection between games and real life.  There is a point where a virtual representation can be so realistic as to be almost impossible to distinguish from real, but there is something so fundamentally wrong about it.  A good example is facial animations.  Graphics can represent human faces almost perfectly, complete with realistically animated hair and skin imperfections.  When animated, however, they may look slightly robotic and inhuman, giving off a creepy quality, and breaking immersion. 
 
"Gamey" A favorite term of Jeff and Ryan, they frequently refer to games as being "Too gamey."  An example would be a first person shooter than purports to be realistic, but then creates a contrived task such as finding the blue key to open the blue door.  This is a common game element, which pulls the player out of the immersive experience.

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SuicidalSnowman

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#4  Edited By SuicidalSnowman

I figure the GB community is a pretty great place for this sort of stuff. 
 
"I knew it was you by the festival of hair that dances upon your lip." -Super Paper Mario 
 
 "I see tough guys like you and I slap the s**t out of them.  " -Epic Beard Man

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SuicidalSnowman

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#5  Edited By SuicidalSnowman

Two examples. 
 
I brought DOA2 for PS2 with me to college, and my roommates had never played it.  After I lost all night at Smash Bros (hell yeah we had an N64) I decided to talk trash about DOA, since none of them had played it.  My one roommate picked Zack and button jammed his way to some ridiculous combo submission/throw move, easily defeating me.  Not my finest hour. 
 
I played Guitar Hero to the point where I could beat most expert songs pretty regularly.  My girlfriend's parents invited us over for a big family event, and she insisted I bring it since all the little cousins and whatnot would be there.  So I hook it up to her parents HDTV, and her ENTIRE family is standing around waiting to see it, so I put it on Hard, just to be safe, and go for Free Bird.  
 
Well, of course I didn't take the time to set it up for HD lag, and floundered through the first half only to spectacularly die out midway through.  
 
Yep.

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SuicidalSnowman

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#6  Edited By SuicidalSnowman
@Sleepy_Insomniac said:
" @ajamafalous said:
" I shave with a disposable razor, dry.  A true man. "
I use a butter knife. Your move. :) "
Sorry, while somewhat admirable, the true measure of the manliness of a beard is whether or not you can light a strike anywhere match on it.  
 
I suppose I should also note that yes, I can do this.
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SuicidalSnowman

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#7  Edited By SuicidalSnowman
@PAJ89 said:
" Battletoads would be great, I don't think that's on there. Chrono Trigger should be there too, although having a DS version makes it less of an issue. "
I dunno, I played a ton of Battletoads back in the day, but seriously, other than for the lulz, I don't know if I ever want to go back to that game again. 
 
Also, General Chaos for Sega. 
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SuicidalSnowman

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#8  Edited By SuicidalSnowman

I play through Rally Cross for the PSX about once a year, I'll pop in older Sim City games from time to time, and build a city or two.  I also used to play through Populous once a month.  Sometimes I will go through the Crash Bandicoot and Spyro series, like play 1, 2, 3 in order of each. 
 
Also, I used to play the Medal of Honor series from time to time, thats two PSone, two PS2...

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SuicidalSnowman

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#9  Edited By SuicidalSnowman

The quest system has caused me to begin creating a list.  Over time I will be building on it.  Please check it out.

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SuicidalSnowman

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#10  Edited By SuicidalSnowman

This looks like a great use of the existing Spore game. Creating creatures was fun and all, but all you did was either kill 10 other species, or befriend them, then it was on to the next phase. Hopefully this gives that piece of the game more depth.