I was at a get-together last week, and the topic of video games came up. I mentioned that I had recently bought a 360 after years of playing PC games sporadically, and ended up talking with a guy who only owns a Wii, but seemed to be a pretty serious gamer. I asked him the obvious question: what have you been playing? Besides the obvious great Nintendo games, I realized that he had been playing stuff like The Conduit, No More Heroes, Red Steel, Metroid: Other M, and MadWorld, was convinced that they were great games, and had no interest in what’s been coming out on the other consoles. I knew these kind of people existed because I’ve seen them on the internet, but always thought they were a small, vocal, and unhinged-from-reality fringe, but this guy was a successful, together professional.

I pretty quickly realized I needed to extricate myself from the conversation — nobody wants to hear a debate about the quality of third-party Wii games at a party — but the surreal alternate universe this guy seemed to exist in has stuck with me. Is it just lack of exposure to the rest of the gaming world, or some kind of hypnosis induced by exposure to the Wii sensor bar?

Is there something wrong with someone enjoying games you view as mediocre?

@Narwhalist: So what if he enjoys games you don't?

Look. You're sounding kind of pretentious. Those games that you listed that he liked, MANY would consider those good games if not great games. Two people can both be gamers and like completley idfferent games, there is nothing wrong with that.

@Narwhalist said:

Besides the obvious great Nintendo games, I realized that he had been playing stuff like The Conduit, No More Heroes, Red Steel, Metroid: Other M, and MadWorld,

I can't tell if you're smart or an idiot.

@Narwhalist said:

I was at a get-together last week, and the topic of video games came up. I mentioned that I had recently bought a 360 after years of playing PC games sporadically, and ended up talking with a guy who only owns a Wii, but seemed to be a pretty serious gamer. I asked him the obvious question: what have you been playing? Besides the obvious great Nintendo games, I realized that he had been playing stuff like The Conduit, No More Heroes, Red Steel, Metroid: Other M, and MadWorld, was convinced that they were great games, and had no interest in what’s been coming out on the other consoles. I knew these kind of people existed because I’ve seen them on the internet, but always thought they were a small, vocal, and unhinged-from-reality fringe, but this guy was a successful, together professional.

I pretty quickly realized I needed to extricate myself from the conversation — nobody wants to hear a debate about the quality of third-party Wii games at a party — but the surreal alternate universe this guy seemed to exist in has stuck with me. Is it just lack of exposure to the rest of the gaming world, or some kind of hypnosis induced by exposure to the Wii sensor bar?

Well, just because you found one person who enjoys it doesn't make the small and vocal part invalid. The reason that the system gets the low-bar is because of the quality in both the graphics and overall interface of the Wii is nothing but sub-par. I love Mario, Zelda, and Kirby and even though I own a Wii I cannot find myself willing to purchase any of those titles at their cost. The reason is because of the graphic fidelity of the console on my large HDTV, and the longevity of any of those titles. We have a large selection of Robust multi-player and single player games that use great public innovations like achievements and trophies to entice people into purchasing their games and console. Wii doesn't really do either of two for the majority of "serious" gamers.

@Video_Game_King said:

@Narwhalist said:

Besides the obvious great Nintendo games, I realized that he had been playing stuff like The Conduit, No More Heroes, Red Steel, Metroid: Other M, and MadWorld,

I can't tell if you're smart or an idiot.

You missed a couple.

@Narwhalist: But yeah dude that happens.

They're on these forums too. They like what the play. That's what happens when you're in a bubble.

@Doctorchimp:

You completely and utterly missed what I was trying to say.

I own (and frequently use) both a 360 and PS3, but I've still enjoyed many Wii games, including some you mentioned. The original Red Steel was pretty crappy (the sequel was actually good) and The Conduit was disappointing, but Mad World, No More Heroes and some unmentioned games (Silent Hill, De Blob, Boom Blox...) are worth playing.

@ccampb89 said:

@Narwhalist said:

I was at a get-together last week, and the topic of video games came up. I mentioned that I had recently bought a 360 after years of playing PC games sporadically, and ended up talking with a guy who only owns a Wii, but seemed to be a pretty serious gamer. I asked him the obvious question: what have you been playing? Besides the obvious great Nintendo games, I realized that he had been playing stuff like The Conduit, No More Heroes, Red Steel, Metroid: Other M, and MadWorld, was convinced that they were great games, and had no interest in what’s been coming out on the other consoles. I knew these kind of people existed because I’ve seen them on the internet, but always thought they were a small, vocal, and unhinged-from-reality fringe, but this guy was a successful, together professional.

I pretty quickly realized I needed to extricate myself from the conversation — nobody wants to hear a debate about the quality of third-party Wii games at a party — but the surreal alternate universe this guy seemed to exist in has stuck with me. Is it just lack of exposure to the rest of the gaming world, or some kind of hypnosis induced by exposure to the Wii sensor bar?

Well, just because you found one person who enjoys it doesn't make the small and vocal part invalid. The reason that the system gets the low-bar is because of the quality in both the graphics and overall interface of the Wii is nothing but sub-par. I love Mario, Zelda, and Kirby and even though I own a Wii I cannot find myself willing to purchase any of those titles at their cost. The reason is because of the graphic fidelity of the console on my large HDTV, and the longevity of any of those titles. We have a large selection of Robust multi-player and single player games that use great public innovations like achievements and trophies to entice people into purchasing their games and console. Wii doesn't really do either of two for the majority of "serious" gamers.

If you honestly believe that "serious" gamers need HD graphics and achievements, you're an idiot.

@Narwhalist said:

I was at a get-together last week, and the topic of video games came up. I mentioned that I had recently bought a 360 after years of playing PC games sporadically, and ended up talking with a guy who only owns a Wii, but seemed to be a pretty serious gamer. I asked him the obvious question: what have you been playing? Besides the obvious great Nintendo games, I realized that he had been playing stuff like The Conduit, No More Heroes, Red Steel, Metroid: Other M, and MadWorld, was convinced that they were great games, and had no interest in what’s been coming out on the other consoles. I knew these kind of people existed because I’ve seen them on the internet, but always thought they were a small, vocal, and unhinged-from-reality fringe, but this guy was a successful, together professional.

I pretty quickly realized I needed to extricate myself from the conversation — nobody wants to hear a debate about the quality of third-party Wii games at a party — but the surreal alternate universe this guy seemed to exist in has stuck with me. Is it just lack of exposure to the rest of the gaming world, or some kind of hypnosis induced by exposure to the Wii sensor bar?

No More Heroes and Mad World are good games. Other M is a first party game developed by a third party company (but it is still, essentially, a first party game). Red Steel 2 was a pretty good game. There have been other good third party games as well. More importantly, though, is that not everyone will like or dislike the games you like or dislike. Don't judge them because their opinions are not the same as your own.

@Narwhalist said:

Looking back, I think I worded my post wrong — I don’t think that the games I listed are horrible so much as relatively unremarkable. What weirded me out more was the way that he seemed to be uninterested in, and somewhat dismissive of, what was available on other consoles. This was a guy that seemed to be an core gamer who played a lot of games, and given how sparse the catalogue has gotten in recent years, he was probably digging a lot lower than the stuff I listed.

It seems like when he reached the point of justifying buying The Conduit at full price, his money would have been better spent saving up for another system.

You seem pretty dismissive of the Wii, so I think that the feelings between you two sound relatively mutual.

@Narwhalist said:

Looking back, I think I worded my post wrong — I don’t think that the games I listed are horrible so much as relatively unremarkable. What weirded me out more was the way that he seemed to be uninterested in, and somewhat dismissive of, what was available on other consoles. This was a guy that seemed to be an core gamer who played a lot of games, and given how sparse the catalogue has gotten in recent years, he was probably digging a lot lower than the stuff I listed.

It seems like when he reached the point of justifying buying The Conduit at full price, his money would have been better spent saving up for another system.

That looked pretty carefully worded to me.

Regardless of what you (and I) think of those games, he has every right to enjoy them if he so wants. It doesn't make him less of a gamer. What would make him less of a gamer is what I bolded, but then you are also dismissive of some of the games that he listed. No More Heroes and Metroid Other M were enjoyed by some people a good bit.

@Hailinel said:

@ccampb89 said:

@Narwhalist said:

I was at a get-together last week, and the topic of video games came up. I mentioned that I had recently bought a 360 after years of playing PC games sporadically, and ended up talking with a guy who only owns a Wii, but seemed to be a pretty serious gamer. I asked him the obvious question: what have you been playing? Besides the obvious great Nintendo games, I realized that he had been playing stuff like The Conduit, No More Heroes, Red Steel, Metroid: Other M, and MadWorld, was convinced that they were great games, and had no interest in what’s been coming out on the other consoles. I knew these kind of people existed because I’ve seen them on the internet, but always thought they were a small, vocal, and unhinged-from-reality fringe, but this guy was a successful, together professional.

I pretty quickly realized I needed to extricate myself from the conversation — nobody wants to hear a debate about the quality of third-party Wii games at a party — but the surreal alternate universe this guy seemed to exist in has stuck with me. Is it just lack of exposure to the rest of the gaming world, or some kind of hypnosis induced by exposure to the Wii sensor bar?

Well, just because you found one person who enjoys it doesn't make the small and vocal part invalid. The reason that the system gets the low-bar is because of the quality in both the graphics and overall interface of the Wii is nothing but sub-par. I love Mario, Zelda, and Kirby and even though I own a Wii I cannot find myself willing to purchase any of those titles at their cost. The reason is because of the graphic fidelity of the console on my large HDTV, and the longevity of any of those titles. We have a large selection of Robust multi-player and single player games that use great public innovations like achievements and trophies to entice people into purchasing their games and console. Wii doesn't really do either of two for the majority of "serious" gamers.

If you honestly believe that "serious" gamers need HD graphics and achievements, you're an idiot.

My friend, there was only one true way to respond to ccampb89's statement.

@Narwhalist said:

@Hailinel said:

pretty dismissive of the Wii, so I think that the feelings between you two sound relatively mutual.

I’m a Wii owner, although I don’t actually own a TV to hook mine up to right now. I will be playing, at the very least, Skyward Sword and SMG2 when I get the chance. I’ve owned every Nintendo console, though I don’t love the direction they went with the Wii.

I’m dismissive of the Wii insofar as support for it seems to have really trailed off over the past year or two, and the non-Nintendo games were never really great. I don’t think it’s partisan to say The Conduit 1 & 2 are games that nobody would care about if they were released on the 360 or PS3.

Yeah, well they weren't, so that comparison is moot. It's like trying to argue how well sales of a Mario game would be on the 360. Such a game does not exist, therefore any comparison you try to make would be entirely theoretical.

@Hailinel said:

pretty dismissive of the Wii, so I think that the feelings between you two sound relatively mutual.

I’m a Wii owner, although I don’t actually own a TV to hook mine up to right now. I will be playing, at the very least, Skyward Sword and SMG2 when I get the chance. I’ve owned every Nintendo console, though I don’t love the direction they went with the Wii.

I’m dismissive of the Wii insofar as support for it seems to have really trailed off over the past year or two, and the non-Nintendo games were never really great. I don’t think it’s partisan to say The Conduit 1 & 2 are games that nobody would care about if they were released on the 360 or PS3.

@damnboyadvance said:

Is there something wrong with someone enjoying games you view as mediocre?

It's just that those games suck balls.

@Narwhalist said:

@Hailinel said:

Yeah, well they weren't, so that comparison is moot. It's like trying to argue how well sales of a Mario game would be on the 360. Such a game does not exist, therefore any comparison you try to make would be entirely theoretical.

I think there’s a real distinction between games like Mario Galaxy, that are unequivocally great, and games like The Conduit, which are considered “good for a Wii game.” Sure, it’s somewhat theoretical, but I don’t think it’s arbitrary.

You keep bringing up the Conduit franchise. How about some other third party Wii games? The Klanoa remake, Muramasa, Silent Hill, deBlob, Okami? Then there are really good Wiiware games like NyxQuest, the Bit.Trip games, the two Lost Winds games, among others. People like you' assuming that all third party Wii games, retail or downloadable, are awful. That's just wrong dude.

I agree No More Heroes isn't a great game....it's terrific game.

@Narwhalist said:

@believer258 said:

Regardless of what you (and I) think of those games, he has every right to enjoy them if he so wants. It doesn't make him less of a gamer. What would make him less of a gamer is what I bolded, but then you are also dismissive of some of the games that he listed. No More Heroes and Metroid Other M were enjoyed by some people a good bit.

I played No More Heroes back in the day, hoping for a great Wii game, and found it a really flawed (and notably ugly) game that seemed to be loved because of its weird, forced-feeling zaniness. That’s obviously my opinion, but it fed my scepticism about claims of great third-party Wii games.

I haven’t played — and shouldn’t have listed — Metroid, given that many seem to love it. I only did because I’ve read some really mixed reviews of it. It’s sitting at 79 on Metacritic, which seems low for something with its pedigree.

It received a 79 not because it's a bad game. A 79, all things considered, is not a bad score. Some people didn't appreciate the game for its gameplay and story. Others did.

Me? I fucking loved it. Whether others didn't doesn't matter to me so long as they can explain in a reasonable capacity why. This is also in no way related to my gaming habits existing in some sort of Wii-exclusive bubble. I have a PS3, as well; there are plenty of games on it that I enjoy there, too. But that's the thing; I'm able to enjoy games on both.

It's fine if people would rather play Wii games, but enjoying Metroid: Other M is an indication that there is something deeply wrong.

@chrissedoff said:

It's fine if people would rather play Wii games, but enjoying Metroid: Other M is an indication that there is something deeply wrong.

I can back my opinion Other M up. Can you back up yours?

Given recent conversations, I'm gonna go ahead and guess "no."

Either way, that conversation is for elsewhere. If you feel so inclined to discuss it, take it to another thread or a PM. Also, you might try working on your argument so that it doesn't focus on there being something wrong with the player.

I get why everyone has jumped on you immediately for your comment, but I also get where you're coming from.

The Wii's list of third party exclusives has been, critically, far less well received (and everyone here knows exactly what you and I are talking about, past their politically correct bullshit attitude) and I can see how it seems a little desperate that they champion games like Madworld and The Conduit. However, the Wii does have plenty of well received third party exclusives at this point, and everyone else in this thread isn't wrong about him not necessarily being crazy for liking different things than you.

I see both sides to this.

Also, fuck you to whoever responds to this with "Opinions, man. Be all end all comment."

There's a valid issue here, in that none of the high quality third party developers on the 360/PS3 port their games to the Wii anymore other than Treyarch and some of the annual sports franchises. I say this as a Wii gamer who gradually shifted to being primarily a PC gamer, as interesting Wii games came out less and less frequently. No More Heroes garnered some attention, but for the same reasons every Suda 51 game does: the game is worth it for the weird writing and character design, and the gameplay is usually meh.

Some other games do stand out, in terms of actually being fairly original games with a lot of polish, like Little King's Story, Silent Hill: Shattered Memories, and (apparently) Xenoblade, but those are few and far between. Conversely, Red Steel 2 is a pretty mediocre experience beyond the part where they made the swordplay feel a little better; the characters are bad, the story is almost nonexistent, all the areas in each zone look indistinguishable (though the overall environment quality was nice), and nothing is really done to vary the gameplay as the game drags on, other than some not in-inengine cutscenes that have QTEs occasionally. It's remarkable because it's not as much of a fuckup as the first game, but it's still mediocre in just about every way. It's no Assassin's Creed 2, Batman: Arkham Asylum, or Red Dead Redemption, is my point. Similarly, Muramasa: The Demon Blade is no Odin Sphere, by which I mean Muramasa still has very nice art, but I found it pretty boring to play, and wouldn't call it a great game.

So on the one hand, if this "guy at a party" only bought a Wii, only has so much free time in his life, and is satisfied with what's available on the Wii, then whatever, that's fine. But if "guy at a party" is openly disparaging the lineup of third party games on the other consoles and thinks the Wii lineup is better overall, then I guess you're right to think he's an idiot, though the tone in your first post is still fairly insulting. You've changed your story enough that I don't know which position the guy was actually taking.

@believer258 said:

@Hailinel said:

@ccampb89 said:

@Narwhalist said:

I was at a get-together last week, and the topic of video games came up. I mentioned that I had recently bought a 360 after years of playing PC games sporadically, and ended up talking with a guy who only owns a Wii, but seemed to be a pretty serious gamer. I asked him the obvious question: what have you been playing? Besides the obvious great Nintendo games, I realized that he had been playing stuff like The Conduit, No More Heroes, Red Steel, Metroid: Other M, and MadWorld, was convinced that they were great games, and had no interest in what’s been coming out on the other consoles. I knew these kind of people existed because I’ve seen them on the internet, but always thought they were a small, vocal, and unhinged-from-reality fringe, but this guy was a successful, together professional.

I pretty quickly realized I needed to extricate myself from the conversation — nobody wants to hear a debate about the quality of third-party Wii games at a party — but the surreal alternate universe this guy seemed to exist in has stuck with me. Is it just lack of exposure to the rest of the gaming world, or some kind of hypnosis induced by exposure to the Wii sensor bar?

Well, just because you found one person who enjoys it doesn't make the small and vocal part invalid. The reason that the system gets the low-bar is because of the quality in both the graphics and overall interface of the Wii is nothing but sub-par. I love Mario, Zelda, and Kirby and even though I own a Wii I cannot find myself willing to purchase any of those titles at their cost. The reason is because of the graphic fidelity of the console on my large HDTV, and the longevity of any of those titles. We have a large selection of Robust multi-player and single player games that use great public innovations like achievements and trophies to entice people into purchasing their games and console. Wii doesn't really do either of two for the majority of "serious" gamers.

If you honestly believe that "serious" gamers need HD graphics and achievements, you're an idiot.

My friend, there was only one true way to respond to ccampb89's statement.

I merely put the word serious in my post to relate to the original poster. I was not responding to you so I do not understand your reasoning behind calling me an idiot or singling out a simple use of a word.

@ccampb89: Because by phrasing your post as you did, you paint some gamers as somehow lesser than others based on their choice of console.

@Hailinel said:

@ccampb89: Because by phrasing your post as you did, you paint some gamers as somehow lesser than others based on their choice of console.

So what you're telling me is you like to nit-pick people to satisfy some sort of avenging part of your soul. Sorry I offended you and any of the people that took offense to my lightly used label.

Jeese.

@ccampb89 said:

@Hailinel said:

@ccampb89: Because by phrasing your post as you did, you paint some gamers as somehow lesser than others based on their choice of console.

So what you're telling me is you like to nit-pick people to satisfy some sort of avenging part of your soul. Sorry I offended you and any of the people that took offense to my lightly used label.

Jeese.

No, I was calling you out for making a statement that sounded ignorant.

@Hailinel said:

@ccampb89 said:

@Hailinel said:

@ccampb89: Because by phrasing your post as you did, you paint some gamers as somehow lesser than others based on their choice of console.

So what you're telling me is you like to nit-pick people to satisfy some sort of avenging part of your soul. Sorry I offended you and any of the people that took offense to my lightly used label.

Jeese.

No, I was calling you out for making a statement that sounded ignorant.

Call it whatever you like, you're just an asshole.

@ccampb89: Don't mind Halinel. He's addicted to conflict.

@Brendan said:

I get why everyone has jumped on you immediately for your comment, but I also get where you're coming from.

The Wii's list of third party exclusives has been, critically, far less well received (and everyone here knows exactly what you and I are talking about, past their politically correct bullshit attitude) and I can see how it seems a little desperate that they champion games like Madworld and The Conduit. However, the Wii does have plenty of well received third party exclusives at this point, and everyone else in this thread isn't wrong about him not necessarily being crazy for liking different things than you.

I see both sides to this.

Also, fuck you to whoever responds to this with "Opinions, man. Be all end all comment."

Opinions, man.

Some grade A trolling going on in this thread.

@Narwhalist said:

...I bought Elebits and Excite Truck, and was convinced they were good games.

You weren't wrong back then. What the hell happened?

@ccampb89 said:

@believer258 said:

@Hailinel said:

@ccampb89 said:

@Narwhalist said:

I was at a get-together last week, and the topic of video games came up. I mentioned that I had recently bought a 360 after years of playing PC games sporadically, and ended up talking with a guy who only owns a Wii, but seemed to be a pretty serious gamer. I asked him the obvious question: what have you been playing? Besides the obvious great Nintendo games, I realized that he had been playing stuff like The Conduit, No More Heroes, Red Steel, Metroid: Other M, and MadWorld, was convinced that they were great games, and had no interest in what’s been coming out on the other consoles. I knew these kind of people existed because I’ve seen them on the internet, but always thought they were a small, vocal, and unhinged-from-reality fringe, but this guy was a successful, together professional.

I pretty quickly realized I needed to extricate myself from the conversation — nobody wants to hear a debate about the quality of third-party Wii games at a party — but the surreal alternate universe this guy seemed to exist in has stuck with me. Is it just lack of exposure to the rest of the gaming world, or some kind of hypnosis induced by exposure to the Wii sensor bar?

Well, just because you found one person who enjoys it doesn't make the small and vocal part invalid. The reason that the system gets the low-bar is because of the quality in both the graphics and overall interface of the Wii is nothing but sub-par. I love Mario, Zelda, and Kirby and even though I own a Wii I cannot find myself willing to purchase any of those titles at their cost. The reason is because of the graphic fidelity of the console on my large HDTV, and the longevity of any of those titles. We have a large selection of Robust multi-player and single player games that use great public innovations like achievements and trophies to entice people into purchasing their games and console. Wii doesn't really do either of two for the majority of "serious" gamers.

If you honestly believe that "serious" gamers need HD graphics and achievements, you're an idiot.

My friend, there was only one true way to respond to ccampb89's statement.

I merely put the word serious in my post to relate to the original poster. I was not responding to you so I do not understand your reasoning behind calling me an idiot or singling out a simple use of a word.

You missed my point. I was not laughing at the notion of a "serious" gamer; I was laughing at the notion that the reason a Wii gets the "low-bar" or whatever is because of its subpar graphics and, worse, the lack of achievements or equivalent. Both of those are horrendous reasons to bash a system. As for the low resolution on your HDTV? You can get component cables for the Wii that clean that up a good bit. Neither the Xbox nor the PS3 come with HDMI cables, so this can't even be used as a knock against the Wii.

I also was not the one to call you an idiot. I don't necessarily think you are, but I do think that your statement betrayed a very narrow, shortsighted attitude toward video games.

As a quick side note: I own a Wii but to me, its worth amounts to Super Mario Galaxy and Metroid Prime Trilogy; nothing else on it catches my attention at all.

@SathingtonWaltz said:

I remember having a great time playing games and just generally being interested in gaming matters and my mother, who doesn't get it, tried to make me believe I was living a boring and pointless life. I sarcastically told her that I had no idea that all the fun and enjoyment I was having was clearly wrong and she must know best. She has never brought it up again.

My point is and has already been covered, don't judge others based on your own point of view, especially if that is an elitist one. I have a 360 and PS3 and guess what, I don't like Halo, CoD, Battlefield, Gears of War, Dragon Age, Metal Gear, Assassin's Creed and more, yet I love Little King's Story, Rune Factory, Harvest Moon and many Nintendo franchises - especially Fire Emblem. I sip from many cups.

@damnboyadvance said:

Is there something wrong with someone enjoying games you view as mediocre?

It's just that those games suck balls.

@Narwhalist said:

@Contrarian said:

I remember having a great time playing games and just generally being interested in gaming matters and my mother, who doesn't get it, tried to make me believe I was living a boring and pointless life. I sarcastically told her that I had no idea that all the fun and enjoyment I was having was clearly wrong and she must know best. She has never brought it up again.

My point is and has already been covered, don't judge others based on your own point of view, especially if that is an elitist one. I have a 360 and PS3 and guess what, I don't like Halo, CoD, Battlefield, Gears of War, Dragon Age, Metal Gear, Assassin's Creed and more, yet I love Little King's Story, Rune Factory, Harvest Moon and many Nintendo franchises - especially Fire Emblem. I sip from many cups.

The “sip from many cups” comment says to me that you’re not what I’m talking about. I’m not really annoyed by people liking games that aren’t critically acclaimed (I’d argue that your tastes are 1:1 with game critics, something is wrong), I’m annoyed by people who seem to be so far up Nintendo’s ass that they’ll consistently drop $50 on B games rather than think about buying a second console.

To have played games regularly and only owned a Wii in 2011, one would have to reach pretty low in terms of quality.

Not everyone that only owns a Wii has their head up Nintendo's ass. I'd hope you'd at least understand that much.

@Narwhalist said:

@Hailinel said:

Not everyone that only owns a Wii has their head up Nintendo's ass. I'd hope you'd at least understand that much.

Of course, though again, I’d start to question if someone was venturing into “good for a Wii game” territory at a point in the console lifecycle where other systems can be had for pretty cheap. You get the distinction, right?

Not really. If a game is good, it's good. It doesn't matter what console it's on. Would you call Persona 4 good "for a PS2 game" given that it was released after the launch of the PS3?

@Narwhalist said:

@Hailinel said:

Not really. If a game is good, it's good. It doesn't matter what console it's on. Would you call Persona 4 good "for a PS2 game" given that it was released after the launch of the PS3?

No, because it was an extremely well-received game, which is made even more impressive by the fact that it came out on a mostly obsolete system. I don’t think the fact that it’s a PS2 game gave it any kind of leg up.

I’m talking about Wii games that are generally considered mediocre (not to take away any one person’s enjoyment of them), but are treated as if that’s not the case. I hate to come back to The Conduit and Red Steel, but I don’t see anyone making the same kind of spirited arguments for Frontlines or Homefront, despite them playing in approximately the same league.

It's funny you say that, because I don't see that many people making spirited arguments for Red Steel or The Conduit.

@Narwhalist said:

@Contrarian said:

I remember having a great time playing games and just generally being interested in gaming matters and my mother, who doesn't get it, tried to make me believe I was living a boring and pointless life. I sarcastically told her that I had no idea that all the fun and enjoyment I was having was clearly wrong and she must know best. She has never brought it up again.

My point is and has already been covered, don't judge others based on your own point of view, especially if that is an elitist one. I have a 360 and PS3 and guess what, I don't like Halo, CoD, Battlefield, Gears of War, Dragon Age, Metal Gear, Assassin's Creed and more, yet I love Little King's Story, Rune Factory, Harvest Moon and many Nintendo franchises - especially Fire Emblem. I sip from many cups.

The “sip from many cups” comment says to me that you’re not what I’m talking about. I’m not really annoyed by people liking games that aren’t critically acclaimed (I’d argue that your tastes are 1:1 with game critics, something is wrong), I’m annoyed by people who seem to be so far up Nintendo’s ass that they’ll consistently drop $50 on B games rather than think about buying a second console.

To have played games regularly and only owned a Wii in 2011, one would have to reach pretty low in terms of quality.

My Wii collection exceeds the combined total of my PS3 and 360 collection, does that mean I have a problem? I have some of these games that seem to be copping flack and I certainly don't say they are good for a Wii game, they are just games that are good. I think the expression "good for a Wii game" came about as a form of passive-aggressive insult by those who don't care for it. I purchased a 360 for certain JRPG (and Forza) that were out at the time and added many other cheap games to try. I purchased a PS3 because of certain JRPG (and GT5) that were exclusive to it and added some cheap games to try. If it were not for the JRPG and car racing, I could easily live without both and be satisfied with the Wii. I can afford all, so I have them. Some can't justify another $1,000 (by the time you get everything) for an extra 2 consoles, be it for cost or just down to desire.

The same intent you have about a Wii only could be applied in reverse.

I was at a get-together last week, and the topic of video games came up. I mentioned that I had recently bought a Wii after years of playing PC games sporadically, and ended up talking with a guy who only owns a 360, but seemed to be a pretty serious gamer. I asked him the obvious question: what have you been playing? Besides the obvious great games, I realized that he had been playing stuff like Battlefield, Gears of War, Halo, Call of Duty, and Tom Clancy, was convinced that they were great games, and had no interest in what’s been coming out on the Wii. I knew these kind of people existed because I’ve seen them on the internet, but always thought they were a small, vocal, and unhinged-from-reality fringe, but this guy was a successful, together professional.

I pretty quickly realised I needed to extricate myself from the conversation — nobody wants to hear a debate about the quality of shooting games at a party — but the surreal alternate universe this guy seemed to exist in has stuck with me. Is it just lack of exposure to the rest of the gaming world, or some kind of hypnosis induced by exposure to shooting things?

Sure, it isn't exactly the same, but the point is real. If someone just had a PS3 or a 360 or even just PC and refused to put some money from just another shooting game on a Wii then how is that any different? Any "serious" gamer wouldn't miss the chance to play Zelda or Mario and then the cream of whatever else comes along, first or third party. Why does it even bother you that someone enjoys something you can't comprehend? You sound just the same as my mother.

@Narwhalist said:

@Contrarian said:

Sure, it isn't exactly the same, but the point is real. If someone just had a PS3 or a 360 or even just PC and refused to put some money from just another shooting game on a Wii then how is that any different? Any "serious" gamer wouldn't miss the chance to play Zelda or Mario and then the cream of whatever else comes along, first or third party. Why does it even bother you that someone enjoys something you can't comprehend? You sound just the same as my mother.

I’d argue the 360 and PS3 catalogues are empirically deeper than the Wii’s — I know Metacritic isn’t the arbiter of quality, but it says something that the Wii has ~100 games above 80 (15 above 90), and the 360 and PS3 have ~300 (~50 above 90). All things being equal, you’re going to reach mediocre games quicker. I’ll grant that if you’re not into WRPG and FPS games (or western games in general), then those numbers may not mean as much. I don’t think it’s impossible that someone could like the Wii lineup more, but it’s improbable to me a hardcore, 10-15+ hours-a-week gamer could be playing just the Wii and not be running out of meat.

“Good for a Wii game” doesn’t come off great, but I think it’s at least symptomatic of a real problem. It may be used by people who have their own (stupid) agendas, but that doesn’t invalidate it.

So what validates it? Also, even if the PS3/360 have about 300 games above a score of 80 on Metacritic, how many people are going to have an interest in anywhere even close to all 300 games? What about games that score below that margin? I'm a die-hard Dynasty Warriors fan. Those games typically get thrashed in their reviews, but I really don't care because I enjoy those games for what they are. And I'd consider Samurai Warriors 3 (the one Wii entry in the series) one of my favorites in the franchise. Is that because it's on the Wii? No, it's because it's a fun game.

But this argument is based on the notion that scores actually mean anything in the long run, which is foolish to begin with. Review scores have absolutely no meaning without context. Judging a game's supposed worth by score alone is one of the most idiotic endeavors one could hope to pursue in determining value, much less in attempting to assess the validity of an opinion.

@Narwhalist:

'Good for a Wii game' is said by people who don't know what the fuck they're talking about.

@Tarsier said:

some ppl bought into the wii gimmick and are still stuck in the 'revolution' to this day its quite disturbing on many levels.

You sound like a grumpy old man talking about music he doesn't understand and won't try to learn because it's too different and scary.

@Hailinel said:

@Narwhalist said:

@Hailinel said:

Not really. If a game is good, it's good. It doesn't matter what console it's on. Would you call Persona 4 good "for a PS2 game" given that it was released after the launch of the PS3?

No, because it was an extremely well-received game, which is made even more impressive by the fact that it came out on a mostly obsolete system. I don’t think the fact that it’s a PS2 game gave it any kind of leg up.

I’m talking about Wii games that are generally considered mediocre (not to take away any one person’s enjoyment of them), but are treated as if that’s not the case. I hate to come back to The Conduit and Red Steel, but I don’t see anyone making the same kind of spirited arguments for Frontlines or Homefront, despite them playing in approximately the same league.

It's funny you say that, because I don't see that many people making spirited arguments for Red Steel or The Conduit.

That's because they all got banned or left the Giant Bomb forums. :P If I recall correctly, there were some pretty spirited defenses of The Conduit and Red Steel coming from individuals who were members of a certain defense force, talking about how a Wiimote was more intuitive than the traditional dual stick setup for consoles. But I digress.

As for the topic itself, at the end of the day opinions are opinions. Yeah, general consensus on the Wii games you stated ranges from mixed to decent, but don't let someone's opinions on things and unwillingness to expose himself to a product you consider superior weird you out. I mean, look at Hailinel here. He likes Metroid Other M. A lot. I have no interest in playing it, but he's justified his opinion on these forums enough for me to figure out that, yes, he means what he says, and who am I to disagree, having not played it myself?

Thanks for reminding me I still own a wii.

@Narwhalist said:

Looking back, I think I worded my post wrong — I don’t think that the games I listed are horrible so much as relatively unremarkable. What weirded me out more was the way that he seemed to be uninterested in, and somewhat dismissive of, what was available on other consoles. This was a guy that seemed to be an core gamer who played a lot of games, and given how sparse the catalogue has gotten in recent years, he was probably digging a lot lower than the stuff I listed.

It seems like when he reached the point of justifying buying The Conduit at full price, his money would have been better spent saving up for another system.

I'm sorry, maybe I can agree with you, but your name is colored green, which means you favor Microsoft (or the 360). It's just ironic, since you're accusing another person of being a fan-boy. Of course you're going to say you're different, but not by that much I take it. Then again, I'm just assuming, as you were about him. Anyways, sorry for the negativity, I'm sure you'll have something to argue back with, unless you just didn't want to reply. I actually read your post and agreed with you, and still do. Some people are just like that. My brother had a PS3 once, his broke, and he said the PS3 sucks. My best friend had a 360, his broke, and said the 360 was worse. In this guys case, he just seems a bit ignorant/naive, though I imagine you didn't get into it enough for you to make that decision, or even care to.

There was a time when people just played games for fun. It didnt matter if it was perfect, all it needed to be was fun.