Satan gets a bad rap. He's never killed anyone or broken the law, so wha'ts everyone's problem with him anyway. Jeez.
Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 4
Game » consists of 5 releases. Released Jul 10, 2008
Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 4 is a role-playing game developed and published by Atlus for the PlayStation 2. It is chronologically the fifth installment in the Shin Megami Tensei: Persona series. Like its predecessor, its gameplay combines a traditional role-playing game with elements of a social simulation. Its critical and commercial success spawned a sizable media empire, including several spinoff titles.
Lucifer, Satan, wtF?
Maybe because they are judged all the time that the devs deciced to put them in the Judgment arcana. I don't really know, but calling them pedophile asain satanists is a bit far IMO.
I don't find it disturbing at all. This is a video-game, why someone would find it offensive, I can't understand. To poke fun at religion is good since it mostly is a fucking bad thing. I wouldn't mind if YHVH (Yahveh) was in it again and was the last boss, again." Does anyone else find that Lucifer and Satan are in this game with the titles "Seeker of Truth" and "Judge" a little bit disturbing? Do we have a bunch of creepy pedofile asian Satanists possessing Jeff and Vinny's minds?? "
Satan and Saint Michael (also in the game) are both the gate keepers of their respective realms thus deciding who enters which so Its only logical that they are part of the Judgement arcana. Regarding Satan being the persona you are rewarded after finishing the Seekers of Truth path (judgement arcana) only makes sense since power wise and by "reputation" Satan has always been at the top.
There one more form actually, Helel/Lucifel the ultimate persona of the Star arcana." What I find hilarious is that Lucifer, Beelzebub and Satan are separate Personas though they're synonyms for the devil. They're all the same thing. "
I guess all the different personae stand for every part of his story: Lucifel/Helel for when he was still amongst the angels (ultimate Star arcana), Lucifer when he defies god (lesser judgement persona) and Satan once he reigns hell (ulimate judgement persona). I was always under the impression that Beelzebud was Lucifers partner.
Persona 4 is evil, do not play this game if you are religious, it is poison.
ESPECIALLY THE TEEN RELATIONSHIPS, however Mr. Morooka is an excellent example of good character.
Yeah the SMT series has always referenced different religions.
Some of the games even tie religion to the plot.
Oh dear. We have a Christian on are hands...
@Hamst3r
said:There's Helel also who is a synonym for the devil. They've all got vastly different appearances for some reason aswell, why does Lucifer look like a creepy business man?" What I find hilarious is that Lucifer, Beelzebub and Satan are separate Personas though they're synonyms for the devil. They're all the same thing. "
P.S I also think you should have changed the title to lucifer? satan? FTW
According to Christian dogma, Lucifer is a fallen angel who led a rebellion against God before the existence of man. For his pride, he was cast down from heaven and now reigns in hell. Beelzebub is "the lord of lies" and is considered a ruler of one of the planes of hell. Finally, Satan is called the great adversary and his actually "evilness" is questionable since his purpose is to challenge, sometimes through temptation, God in all His forms. He is "red" to God's "blue". Anyway, I don't find any of the portrayals of the icons blasphemous so I don't think there is a problem with them being in the game or holding the positions among the arcana that they do.
" What I find hilarious is that Lucifer, Beelzebub and Satan are separate Personas though they're synonyms for the devil. They're all the same thing. "Not really. They only seem similar because their traditional roles were so ill-defined and closely related. Beelzebub for one is a corruption of a god named Baal Zebul, who is also in P4.
Also, much of how Megaten's demon hierarchy works (and really, how Christianity views its angels/demons in general today) is inspired from John Milton's Paradise Lost, where Beelzebub was a top general for Satan/Lucifer.
It does seem lazy of them, considering how many gods they don't have in the same to include various iterations on the same being just because it happens to have a bunch of names. Its not like with God, with God you have 5 motheistic religions that were once the same religion branching off into other things, so God, Allah, Yahweh(or YHVH), Jah, and Jehova are the same being but under varying interpretations. Satan is pretty exclusive to Christianity (and post Christian branches like Rastafari and Mormonism) and he doesn't really have many faces, comparitively.
Here's a reference of the various names for Satan that seems to only use the bible as reference: http://www.markbeast.com/satan/names-of-satan.htm
If the game's designers have changed that all up and made them different things that's cool with me, I don't really care, I still find it silly. :P
" @Eirikr: I'm only talking about how it's laid out in the bible, where in Satan, The Devil, Lucifer and Beelzebub are names for the same thing. At least, that's what I remember from all those years ago when I was forced to read it every year as a kid. :)There's a lot more to theology than just what's in the various religious texts! For example, the seven deadly sins are nowhere in the Bible. And you'll hear people quoting them like scripture. The conceptualization of religion moves with the ebb and flow of its believers.
Here's a reference of the various names for Satan that seems to only use the bible as reference: http://www.markbeast.com/satan/names-of-satan.htm If the game's designers have changed that all up and made them different things that's cool with me, I don't really care, I still find it silly. :P "
" Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father but by me." Is that in Persona? "Jesus is not in any Shin Megami Tensei game. I highly doubt he would be, either. I've suggested though one way would be to use one of his "forms," such as Agnus Dei.
" Does anyone else find that Lucifer and Satan are in this game with the titles "Seeker of Truth" and "Judge" a little bit disturbing? Do we have a bunch of creepy pedofile asian Satanists possessing Jeff and Vinny's minds?? "This is a video game series...also, in the main SMT games, they arent just carbon copying Satan or Lucifer into the game, their entire story is done by Atlus for their games. Its not "OH COOL LOOK SATAN AND LUCIFER, IM A SATANIST LOLZ", its nothing like that. In their fiction, God has generally been the antagonist and Lucifer and Satan are two different entities entirely with not even close to similar goals.
There isnt anything disturbing about it, and if you think so you need to open your mind a bit more honestly, and not think so seriously about what is summed up truthfully as "Atlus's own mythology" for their games. As far as him being a persona though, it literally has no say on anything..hes just there, he has no part in the story at all. Satan has always been the Judgement.
An obscure word mixed with a strange interpretation, and Jesus and pals could be in the game without people even realizing it. If they had a persona that was a bearded glowing man with giant tablet stones where his hands should be and named it Zanoah, Toviah or Jered, how many people would recognize its Moses? Even if it had plague like attacks most people couldn't put it all together.
Well, would another arcana really be appropriate? He is not a demon, he's an angel. He resides in a place where punishment on sinners is administrated. Judgment makes more sense than most. It makes sense in the context of the game at least, though he probably would've made a decent fool too.
Hebrew apocrypha has them all as different fallen angels representing different negative aspects of humanity. They only became synonyms when Christianity decided to hijack them and fuse them into one entity.
" Hebrew apocrypha has them all as different fallen angels representing different negative aspects of humanity. They only became synonyms when Christianity decided to hijack them and fuse them into one entity. "Except that the Hebrew Apocrypha is generally rejected by both Jews and Christians. The name Apocrypha is Greek for hidden and none of those texts are considered cannon. Since Christianity started as Jewish sects, they do have a lot in common when it comes to creation myths.
@alexl86 said:
" @Undeadpool said:" Hebrew apocrypha has them all as different fallen angels representing different negative aspects of humanity. They only became synonyms when Christianity decided to hijack them and fuse them into one entity. "Except that the Hebrew Apocrypha is generally rejected by both Jews and Christians. The name Apocrypha is Greek for hidden and none of those texts are considered cannon. Since Christianity started as Jewish sects, they do have a lot in common when it comes to creation myths. "
True, but I'm just citing the source of where the beings originate as some people seem to be very confused by the fact that the game treats them as separate entities.
Also: it's a Japanese game. The beings aren't sacred to them, they're just figures of another culture's mythology, like Shinto gods are to most Western viewers.
"Except that the Hebrew Apocrypha is generally rejected by both Jews and Christians. The name Apocrypha is Greek for hidden and none of those texts are considered cannon. Since Christianity started as Jewish sects, they do have a lot in common when it comes to creation myths. "You are correct, but to that general idea I say: So?
Many of the ideas in the Apocrypha come from sources no less credible than the canon text. It was just a matter of face, really. In Christianity for example, you couldn't have had a book that portrayed Jesus as anything less than divine. Canon was ultimately decided by man, not God, for political reasons.
" Does anyone else find that Lucifer and Satan are in this game with the titles "Seeker of Truth" and "Judge" a little bit disturbing? Do we have a bunch of creepy pedofile asian Satanists possessing Jeff and Vinny's minds?? "You're pathetic.
" What's wrong with Satan? He killed what? 1 person in the bible? While God killed too many to count? "/thread
" Well, it can be argued that Original Sin is largely Satan's fault, making him indirectly responsible for the death of every human ever. "Then why did God create the tree of knowledge knowing Adam and Eve would be easily tempted? You'd think he'd be trying to prevent that, which would be easily done by NOT creating a tree that would curse humanity if eaten from.
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