" I am an atheist and I know that Christians think I am going to hell. "I'm Christian and I don't give two fucks about what will happen to you, I'm just doing my thing. I'm sure most are like that, so stop being paranoid.
Offended at being told I will go to hell.
Just think that while they are wasting their lifes for heaven, you are taking advantage of the only chance you have to live.
"@animegreen said:" I am an atheist and I know that Christians think I am going to hell. "I'm Christian and I don't give two fucks about what will happen to you, I'm just doing my thing. I'm sure most are like that, so stop being paranoid. "
Most are, and i'm gratefull for it. But there are some crazies, and others who just feel the need to state their opinions at you for no reason. I mean, in my area there are a ton of christians, but it only takes the crazy black woman who preaches on the street corner telling everyone who doesnt take a leaflet that they are going to burn for all eternity, or the assholes that knock on your door during tea-time to ruin it for everyone. Like every other hobby, religion, job, etc etc, there are always a small percentage who spoil it for everyone else.
I don't understand how you can possibly take offence at someone speaking incoherently to you.
Would you be offended if I were to tell you that you'll go to Blork when you take a shit if you're evil, and that you'll go to Shmengu when you take a shit if you're good? These statements are as incoherent as the notions of heaven and hell, but there's nothing offensive about incoherence (except to maybe your sense of love for minds capable of working with logic.)
Being an athiest, there are two types of people in my world. Those I like, and those that can go to Hell (even if I don't believe in it) regardless of your religion (or lack thereof).
Heaven is a figment of people's imaginations because they can't fully accept other people's deaths and thus they form a romanticised fantasyland where they are "still alive", comforting themselves that the ones they still love are still with them (in a manner of sorts). That's what I believe in. Whether or not I can prove I'm right or wrong doesn't matter. As like any other religion, it's my belief.
Nothing starts a thread going like the topic of religion! :3
I used to be one of those more aggressive Atheists who took offense to religion and spewed all of that "we must be perfectly rational" and "logic will win in the end!" nonsense but you know what happened? I realized how stupid all of that was. I started to understand the place that spirituality has in life and realized how in a country that is predominantly Atheistic, Japan, I find just as many absolute pricks and losers as I would back in the US. Knowing that society wouldn't really be any better without religion, and also knowing all of the positive things that religion can bring to one's life, I stopped all of the anti-religion stuff and decided to just chill out.
As for the being offended at being told you'll go to hell, why does it bother you? You don't believe in hell, and since that person has shown themselves to be kind of a dick why should you care what they think of you? Take the high road and realize that while they're just spreading hate, you're living your life.
" @NickM: Sounds like you're being a pretty bad Christian then. As a Christian, you're supposed to help save as many souls as you can in your lifetime. If you see the man in the ditch, you can't just keep walking... if you want to be a good Christian that is. If you're a Christian whose fine with going to hell himself though, then, that's a weird way of being Christian. "Make no mistake, if I see a man in a ditch, I'll help him, but I wont prosecute him due to his beliefs, and will not verbally assault or threaten him.
You know, it's not an unpopular stance to take that Hell is a term for the concept of being without God's presence.
For a person of faith, that could be interpreted as their inability to move past some spiritual quandary gained in life that does not allow you to accept God's love/redemption/transcendence or however you wish to call it.
For a person without faith, you merely hold that there is no God so being without his presence isn't a problem. If you are satisfied with that, then good for you. If there is no 'greater truth' then you can die content with being yourself.
There isn't even a problem for your atheist if it turns out that there was some greater existence past your normal span of years. If you are satisfied being atheistic, then you could persist in existing in your self-satisfaction (that last not used insultingly, you could be content with yourself). If it turns out there is something to experience after mortality and atheism is not sufficient any more, I hear God has infinite love and infinite patience and loves to throw a party.
I had some girl say "You're going to hell" to me once. She also said "I don't believe in ghosts I believe in Jesus." I started laughing really hard.
Another thing you can do though, is tell them their going to hell too. Just to get a reaction out of them.
oh and just a random thought, I totally agree with this thread http://www.giantbomb.com/forums/off-topic/31/so-i-read-the-bible-yesterday/250166/#117
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" @Arkthemaniac: Sort of agree with you there, although a side mission for some religions is also to prove other religions wrong. But that's neither here nor there. Point is, both Atheism and Religion deal in absolutes (there absolutly IS a god, there absolutely ISN'T a god) and absolutes, religious or not, are usually really dumb. That is why I am agnostic; I don't know and neither do you. "THIS.
" @Tebbit: That's not entirely true. Some atheists, such as myself say "Even if there was a verifiable God, I would refuse to acknowledge his authority". Just like Anarchists don't necessarily disbelieve the existence of governments, atheists don't necessarily disbelieve the existence of Gods; some of just deny their legitimacy and dominion. "I see!
Do you honestly get random people come to you telling you you'll go to hell, or are you simply being provocative around religious groups yourself, putting down their beliefs at every chance, say if they happen to talk about church or something else, like you've done with this very thread? If both are true, stop it. If only the latter is true, stop it. If only the former is true, tell them to GTFO.
" @NickM:But if your only concern for their person is their mortal self, then you're being a bad Christian. A Christian's duty is to save the souls of mankind. "Do you even understand what you're saying? Because I don't. Mortal self? Where did you pull that out from? Ah, whatever I don't really give a damn regardless.
Christianity is a way of living that is concerned more with the afterlife than with life itself. If you have no concern for the immortal souls of your fellow human beings, and your only concern for them is their quality of life on this earth, then you're not doing your job.
" @Suicrat said: Are you saying that if I want to be a good christian I should run around like a crazy and condemn atheists and people of other religion to hell? Because I don't think that that makes you a good christian, let alone person. "NO NO NO!!! I dont think he was trying to say that. I think he was trying to say that the BIBLE says that is what christians should do.. Im glad you made the right choice though.
@Fallen189 said:
" But you have aa religion: Atheism. "You join a religion. It is impossible to be born believing in god, Zeus, Flying spaghetti monster, or Allah.
In fact every living person is born an atheist... would you say a infant is a member of a religion? No..
So how is the absence of faith a religion...
If you do anything less than that then what's the point of being a Christian, unless you're not really a Christian, and you just tell people you're not, so as not to offend your family, neighbours, et cetera.
If you're being a Christian who's just "living his/her life", and not devoting your life to the post-mortal salvation of mankind then you're going to hell too.
" @NickM said:I would say everyone is born agnostic. You still have to decide not to believe in religion!" @Suicrat said: Are you saying that if I want to be a good christian I should run around like a crazy and condemn atheists and people of other religion to hell? Because I don't think that that makes you a good christian, let alone person. "NO NO NO!!! I dont think he was trying to say that. I think he was trying to say that the BIBLE says that is what christians should do.. Im glad you made the right choice though.
@Fallen189 said:" But you have aa religion: Atheism. "You join a religion. It is impossible to be born believing in god, Zeus, Flying spaghetti monster, or Allah. In fact every living person is born an atheist... would you say a infant is a member of a religion? No..So how is the absence of faith a religion... "
" @NickM: I'm saying as a Christian your primary concern should be to find the best possible way of getting as many people to heaven as possible. That involves getting people to 1) Accept Jesus as their lord and savior, (2) Admit they are sinners, (3) Confess their sins and atone, so that they will be allowed into heaven. For some Christians, that involves telling atheists that they're going to hell, for others it involves trying to get alcoholics and drug addicts to replace their addiction to substances with an addiction to Christ; for yet others it involves going on "missions" to the "godless" parts of the world, and attempting to teach them the ways of Christ and get them to devote their own lives to the prospect of heaven.If you do anything less than that then what's the point of being a Christian, unless you're not really a Christian, and you just tell people you're not, so as not to offend your family, neighbours, et cetera.If you're being a Christian who's just "living his/her life", and not devoting your life to the post-mortal salvation of mankind then you're going to hell too. "I forgot to mention that I'm not a Catholic or Mormon, or any other crappy pop version of christianity etc. I'm a Christian Old Believer, and we aren't really concerned with other peoples choices. Its a very strict religion and we pray for our own forgiveness. If a person decides to ask for forgiveness, good. If not, well, God will be his judge, we do not have the authority to condemn people to hell.
" I am an atheist and I know that Christians think I am going to hell. I also am told that if I don't believe in god then I will go to hell. This is very offensive; because I am 100% sure hell doesn't exist and when I die I don't want people thinking i am going to hell. lol.My proof for knowing that hell doesn't exist is I am told that "it is a place your soul goes when you die".. but there is no soul. Because when you lose the Insular Cortex part of the brain you lose all consciousness... and when you die your brain dies. This also proves there is no heaven. (defined by: A place your soul goes for eternity that is with god.)How can you go to hell if you have no soul? When you die nothing happens. Doesn't sound that bad to me.Any proof for souls? Reply if you think their is a soul. P.S. I have no problem with religion; It is kind of entertaining. I just have a problem at being insulted and told I will go to hell when people try and prove to me god exists. P.P.S. Excuse my grammar and spelling English is my second language. "
Once again, I feel the need to elucidate some of the basic nuances of atheism.
Atheism is not monochromatic, first of all, but I'm sure you already know that.
Second of all, a person doesn't need to be certain in their disbelief of the existence of God to be able to whole-mindedly reject the notion that other people's insistence on specific methods of personifying natural processes are a justifiable means of wielding political power
Thirdly, an atheist has the option of eventually being defiant to the God him/her/it/themself/ves. Even if a Christian could prove to me that the entity responsible for the entire universe came down and impregnated Mary, or came down and gave Moses the Ten Commandments, or came down and told Mohamed to propagate his truths, I would still have the option of asking "but where does the notion of worship and submission come in?"
Atheism isn't simply the certainty of godlessness (because as you said in your post, certainty to the extent we're describing is impossible), but the firm belief that just because a thing is responsible for my existence, doesn't mean I owe it my existence.
Atheism isn't simply the certainty of godlessness (because as you said in your post, certainty to the extent we're describing is impossible), but the firm belief that just because a thing is responsible for my existence, doesn't mean I owe it my existence. "
That would most likely be up to "the thing that is responsible for [your] existence" I would think.
" Give me liberty or give me death, even at the hands of a God. "wow. that is a great improvement to the old quote.
" @NickM said:You have a belief that there is no God. That's a religion." @Suicrat said: Are you saying that if I want to be a good christian I should run around like a crazy and condemn atheists and people of other religion to hell? Because I don't think that that makes you a good christian, let alone person. "NO NO NO!!! I dont think he was trying to say that. I think he was trying to say that the BIBLE says that is what christians should do.. Im glad you made the right choice though.
@Fallen189 said:" But you have aa religion: Atheism. "You join a religion. It is impossible to be born believing in god, Zeus, Flying spaghetti monster, or Allah. In fact every living person is born an atheist... would you say a infant is a member of a religion? No..So how is the absence of faith a religion... "
" @animegreen said:I also believe that the world is round... is that a religion?" @NickM said:You have a belief that there is no God. That's a religion. "" @Suicrat said: Are you saying that if I want to be a good christian I should run around like a crazy and condemn atheists and people of other religion to hell? Because I don't think that that makes you a good christian, let alone person. "NO NO NO!!! I dont think he was trying to say that. I think he was trying to say that the BIBLE says that is what christians should do.. Im glad you made the right choice though.
@Fallen189 said:" But you have aa religion: Atheism. "You join a religion. It is impossible to be born believing in god, Zeus, Flying spaghetti monster, or Allah. In fact every living person is born an atheist... would you say a infant is a member of a religion? No..So how is the absence of faith a religion... "
Using your logic believing that the earth isnt flat would be just as much a religion as Islam, Christianity, Greek mythology, or pastafarianism? Pardon my disagreement...
" @Manatassi:
Once again, I feel the need to elucidate some of the basic nuances of atheism.
Atheism is not monochromatic, first of all, but I'm sure you already know that.
Second of all, a person doesn't need to be certain in their disbelief of the existence of God to be able to whole-mindedly reject the notion that other people's insistence on specific methods of personifying natural processes are a justifiable means of wielding political power
Thirdly, an atheist has the option of eventually being defiant to the God him/her/it/themself/ves. Even if a Christian could prove to me that the entity responsible for the entire universe came down and impregnated Mary, or came down and gave Moses the Ten Commandments, or came down and told Mohamed to propagate his truths, I would still have the option of asking "but where does the notion of worship and submission come in?"
Atheism isn't simply the certainty of godlessness (because as you said in your post, certainty to the extent we're describing is impossible), but the firm belief that just because a thing is responsible for my existence, doesn't mean I owe it my existence. "
Belief is not the entirety of religion.
Institutions, books, buildings, symbols, holidays, and doctrines make up religion.
A person can have a belief there is a god but subscribe to any particular religion's interpretation of God.
Atheism is not unified, and it isn't branching either (the way Christianity, Islam, and Buddhism is). It is broad, chaotic melange of sometimes-conflicting ideas, notions, conceptions, and beliefs.
Besides, if we're to get into the original, etymological definition of the word religion: "A personal relationship with God", then no religion is religious, and atheism is definitely not religious.
By any definition of the word, aheism is not a religion. Whether or not people except the notion of godlessness on faith, on the other hand is an entirely different matter.
" @Fallen189 said:The Absence of an expressed Belief system is simply that, an Absence. In the same way a child cannot be convicted of murder or abuse due to the fact that they have not developed the ability to reason in such a way that responsibility can be accredited to them." @animegreen said:I also believe that the world is round... is that a religion? "" @NickM said:You have a belief that there is no God. That's a religion. "" @Suicrat said: Are you saying that if I want to be a good christian I should run around like a crazy and condemn atheists and people of other religion to hell? Because I don't think that that makes you a good christian, let alone person. "NO NO NO!!! I dont think he was trying to say that. I think he was trying to say that the BIBLE says that is what christians should do.. Im glad you made the right choice though.
@Fallen189 said:" But you have aa religion: Atheism. "You join a religion. It is impossible to be born believing in god, Zeus, Flying spaghetti monster, or Allah. In fact every living person is born an atheist... would you say a infant is a member of a religion? No..So how is the absence of faith a religion... "
" @animegreen said: The Absence of an expressed Belief system is simply that, an Absence. In the same way a child cannot be convicted of murder or abuse due to the fact that they have not developed the ability to reason in such a way that responsibility can be accredited to them.Wth dude were a bunch of 17 year olds on a video game forum... quit bringing your harvard philospohy here take it somewhere else!!! j/k lol :DThe Definition of Religion is Mute.The so called "religion" of Christianity is in-fact a Faith NOT a Religion. @Fallen189 to answer your statement. Your Belief that the world is "round" is a Belief or a matter of Faith. You could argue that you have enough evidence to support your Faith in the world being "round" and that you are content with that evidence. However it is quite viable that I could argue that your evidence is subjective and is being taken on Faith. It is perfectly reasonable to suggest that the world does not, in-fact, exist at all!We function in our perceived "universe" by taking certain Beliefs on Faith. If we did not do so, we perceive that our universe would cease to be understandable, and we would be unable to function in the capacity we desire to.Perhaps we are all wrong and the only person with the right Idea is sitting in a mental institution insane with frustration at watching us walk around doing it all wrong. We take it on Faith that we are in-fact correct about our perception of the world. This does not make us right it simply keeps us in a state of being we like to call "sane". Or at least we Believe it does :D"
The idea that some people have a place to go on a sunday (or a saturday, or a friday, or any other regularly or irregularly-kept schedule) to get together, and tell stories, and sing songs about how beautiful the world is, definitely a concrete value, and I will never reject that aspect of it.
However, the concept of Hell in many religions is a binding force that, when applied politically, ought to be examined critically.
And yes, I am aware that people of all faiths have been misrepresented by the most vocal and politically powerful among them. And to those who acknowledge that, and are doing their part to reform that aspect of their religion have my respect. Those that accept it for what it is, or pretend this phenomenon has value on its own, or turn a blind eye to the initiation of force in the name of their particular religion on the other hand, do not.
But I was trying to point out that atheism isn't the mere pretense of certainty of the non-existence of God. It can also be a denial that nature, the universe, entropy, or whatever other so-broad-as-to-be-interpreted-as-universal phenomenae have personae of their own, have wills of their own, or are somehow worthy of unthinking submission.
And your definition accepts my interpretation of atheism. An absence of theism isn't just the absence of god per se, but the assertion that particular branded systems of belief are not worth abdicating one's will.
" @Fallen189:
Belief is not the entirety of religion.
Institutions, books, buildings, symbols, holidays, and doctrines make up religion.
A person can have a belief there is a god but subscribe to any particular religion's interpretation of God.
Atheism is not unified, and it isn't branching either (the way Christianity, Islam, and Buddhism is). It is broad, chaotic melange of sometimes-conflicting ideas, notions, conceptions, and beliefs.
Besides, if we're to get into the original, etymological definition of the word religion: "A personal relationship with God", then no religion is religious, and atheism is definitely not religious.
By any definition of the word, aheism is not a religion. Whether or not people except the notion of godlessness on faith, on the other hand is an entirely different matter. "
You should see the movie Drag Me to Hell. I thought it might be good, but man, it was awesome! What's this thread about anyway?
" @NickM: I'm saying as a Christian your primary concern should be to find the best possible way of getting as many people to heaven as possible. That involves getting people to 1) Accept Jesus as their lord and savior, (2) Admit they are sinners, (3) Confess their sins and atone, so that they will be allowed into heaven. For some Christians, that involves telling atheists that they're going to hell, for others it involves trying to get alcoholics and drug addicts to replace their addiction to substances with an addiction to Christ; for yet others it involves going on "missions" to the "godless" parts of the world, and attempting to teach them the ways of Christ and get them to devote their own lives to the prospect of heaven.If you do anything less than that then what's the point of being a Christian, unless you're not really a Christian, and you just tell people you're not, so as not to offend your family, neighbours, et cetera.If you're being a Christian who's just "living his/her life", and not devoting your life to the post-mortal salvation of mankind then you're going to hell too. "Then I guess my grandfather, a man who went to seminary and is an ordained minister of the Lutheran Church, is going to hell then. His wife has done a lot of stuff such as working with churches in Africa to help locals but I can't think of that many things outside of his work as a minister which would be categorized as work towards people's post-mortal salvation. He doesn't proselytize people, and in fact just this month he worked together with a Rabbi to oversee a mixed-faith wedding (One of my Christian cousins marrying a Jewish man.) He doesn't go around telling people they're going to hell, helping addicts cure their addiction and replace it with Christ, and I don't think he's ever been on a mission anywhere to convert people. He has certainly devoted his life to Christianity, but he hasn't devoted it to converting people because not all Christians are like that or have to be like that. He thinks we should respect other people's opinions and not force our own ideas down their throats.
The Bible is a long book, and one that's open to a lot of interpretation. The whole thing is further complicated by the fact that my grandpa isn't a non-Orthodox Lutheran who has preached in the past that he believes the Bible is not meant to be read as a textbook; it should be read as a moral guide to help us get through life.
There are lots of different types of Christians out there Suicrat, and it's not up to you to judge what makes a person a good Christian.
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