Slag

Drastic change is required at this stage to have any real hope. User engagement appears to be practically nil these days and a wiki that isn't even the front page of its' own site is doomed to fail imo.

I think at this point it's 100% clear that user side of Giant Bomb is dying a torturous death from lack of engineering resources/focus and frankly has been for 6-7 years now since the sale. I don't fault that decision as I'm well aware that the banner ad market never really recovered and it's clear where they make their money these days. Quests apparently were a failed attempt to monetize the wiki as well.

Thus I think it's in the best interests of both components of the site to separate. That's only been made more starkly clear with the new redesign (again I don't blame them, you want to invest in what works for your business. Throw good money after good. The gang is real good at the personality stuff). The Personality aspect of the site is probably hindered by weighed down by even having to spend mental focus thinking about anything other than that. GB clearly makes almost all their money off subs who come for the video and audio content and probably gets a far greater ROI for their time when they focus on what they do well. The wiki is something that is a living breathing database that needs constant attention to remain viable, now more than ever in the era where 3k + games get released every year just on Steam alone.

Couple options I've pondered whether they would help or would even be possible

1. Sell the Wiki to an outside party-
   1. Might be unpalatable for sentimental, legal, economic reasons
   2. Positives might be it might be able to use the business model of a different company better (able to fund it through Patreon using donation drives ala Wikipedia etc) that wouldn't be viable at CBSi
   3. Maybe Twitch or somebody big who uses the API wants it. I dunno
2. Make the wiki and user blogs/lists/reviews part of GameFaqs instead of Giant Bomb
   1. Gamefaqs is basically the database aspect of the CBSi game sites already, this sort of thing is their sole focus
      1. Release Data and Genre data are already present in the GameFaqs pages, guides are too obviously. Something GB's wiki once sort of had. A lot of the content is pointlessly duplicative in their current states. It never made sense to me that I'd have essentially consult gamefaqs to fill in blank release dates here.
      2. Gamefaqs community seems to be considerably larger and more active than GB's, much larger pool to recruit and continually find new editors.
      3. the Wiki would likely enhance what they already try to do over there and fits with their core mission better than GB's
      4. Their business model is already focused on text based content
      5. Gamefaqs already has plenty of user reviews and active forums. Blogs and whatnot would likely fit in well over there
      6. The Wiki would likely get more regular attention over there and basic upkeep/refresh needs would be more likely to be met.
   2. Some potential Downsides
      1. Probably an unbelievably massive project to try to integrate the two databases
      2. Gamefaqs probably has a different philosophy about to handle information. May be incompatible with existing info in the wiki
      3. Gamefaqs existing community would likely clash socially with what remains of the Gb community. (there's been subtle and not so subtle digs at them by some users here over the years)
      4. Jeff may not be allowed to be involved or not want to be involved with it anymore. Not many people have his breadth of knowledge or expertise. His involvement with the wiki is hugely beneficial even if it's just in an advisory capacity.
      5. gamefaqs leadership may not want the wiki
      6. I'm sure there's tons of challenges that I'm not aware of, since I don't work there or know anybody personally at either place.

Whatever happens to the Wiki whether it stays here or something else happens, I think for it to have any chance to revive it needs these things bare minimum

• It needs to be front and center on its own site. You can't expect people to use something or know something's there that's not even the focus of its' own site.
• It needs constant engineering focus, to change with the times. Video games themselves change and the wiki needs to adapt with them. There will always be new challenges and new ways to sort information. Some examples of the changes to video games since the GB wiki was launched, subscription services like Gamepass, PS Now, PSN+ etc. The flood of indie games hitting Steam every year making it impossible for a handful of active contributors to keep up. New genres like Battle Royale games. Thus a wiki must be able to accommodate such new challenges and most critically do so in a timely manner. A wiki cannot thrive on autopilot. It can't have engineering fixes to core features take years to address, same goes with editorial decisions.
• On that note, it needs to be reliable. I've learned tricks on how to not lose my work, but there's plenty of times I've lost paragraphs I've typed due to CSRF token issues and/or other glitches. Or seen associations break etc. That's extremely extremely frustrating.
• The editors need to believe their efforts are going into a project that is active and successful. Nobody wants to spend hours putting info (for free no less) and research into a dying endeavor. Maintaining editors' passion and goodwill is essential to keeping a wiki alive. These people are volunteers, if they aren't happy and enthusiastic they likely won't contribute much.
• It needs constant engagement with staff, who oversee and try to direct activity to fill in areas where information is incorrect or incomplete. A staff who actively use, like and promote the wiki and communicate with users on a frequent reliable basis. To provide guidance about things like Style guides and set examples on how pages should be built. Also to settle disputes, we haven't had too many edit wars here that I know of but a lot of successful wikis do have to navigate things like that. When the wiki was rolling we had things like tasks and a functioning point system to help making editing more fun and focused.
• A monetization model that supports it financially. Maybe that's patreon, I doubt it's banner ads. Whatever it is, A wiki needs staff and staff costs money.
• Probably looser standards when it comes to allowing indie game makers to fill in their own pages. While pages absolutely shouldn't be ads, to be frank with the flood of games released now the bigger issue is manpower to just even fill pages. I think that's true for any wiki. It wouldn't perhaps to be so horrible to harness some of that desire to let game professionals fill in some of their own pages (at least initially). Maybe a new wiki could be used in a way akin to IMDB and be a place where professionals can make their own personal pages to network etc.
• It needs to have value to the user/editor beyond just being information. At Gb probably the main benefit the wiki currently provides is the List function (which is fun!). But it'd even more useful if it was tied into more systems that provide value to enthusiasts (like guides, achievement tracking, collection tracking, backlog tracking, how many hours to complete a game etc etc). Be a tool for them to be selfishly interested in improving because they themselves are using it.
• If it stays at GB , it's probably going to a consistent promotion campaign to win people back over, and it will probably need that for at least a couple years. A fullblown Relaunch event to start and then keep it rollin. Not only would these changes have to be made and shown to be durable over a long period of time (so that people trust it's going to continue), but you'd have to get people to even notice you are addressing it somehow.

EDIT: I forgot to add the above isn't intended as a personal criticism of anybody. I know there have been plenty of folks who put in absolutely herculean efforts into the wiki and still do, especially some of the mods. Running a website with as a broad of focus as Giant Bomb is just a really hard thing to do, even harder with such a small staff. Times change too, what made sense in 2008 may not make sense in 2019.

Definitely agree with all this

The general impression I've gotten over the years is that these companies view their target audience as early teen Japanese boys and they still do. So they try to cater to what they perceive to be the whims of that market and if the West likes it too? great. But that is the business reason is the reason characters like Hope and Vaan have been inserted into Final Fantasy games where they don't seem to fit and why nearly every JRPg is a riff on the Hero's Journey starting with a young boy in a small town.

But I wouldn't expect much change until people can convince the Japanese publishers that adults are their biggest customer base.

@superharman:

I think if you have to even ask the question, you already know the answer.

Personally I see no harm in just waiting longer and paying less to play these games. Back in the day I used to be Day 1 with every Final Fantasy game, but I've been let down enough by them in recent years to be fine waiting till they've been out a while if I'm not sure.

Doing so lowers the expectations and the stakes for you. Frankly it makes it easier for me to enjoy an imperfect game. If DA4 is like previous DA games, there will probably be a GotY edition for like 20 bucks 1-1.5 years after release. Then if it sucks, it's not a big deal. I paid around 10 bucks for Andromeda, wasn't my bag, so felt no regrets just moving on from it when I got bored.

if that approach isn't something that would work for you, I don't think there's any harm in moving on. Your tastes change over time, Game companies change over time, creative teams change. The Doctors aren't at Bioware anymore, Casey Hudson is, but they've had a lot of turnover there. It is essentially a different company now than the people who DA:O. Very few things in games are like Super Mario bros, which has had Miyamoto at the head for 30 years.

@north6:Oh I was thinking something different (like which online games are active or shutdown. i.e. is Final Fantasy Xi still online? Yes it is. Is Hawken? no it's not)

but this is a good idea too I think. Not sure what the wiki should call that. It's not really a platform per say. I'm guessing a concept page and then people would have to maintain these?

EDIT: Looks like that's how these pages exist and are handled already, though they look pretty incomplete

https://www.giantbomb.com/origin-access/3015-9237/

https://www.giantbomb.com/xbox-game-pass/3015-9235/

https://www.giantbomb.com/playstation-now/3015-8393/

I'd vote none myself

but if forced to pick from those 3... Metro seems the most interesting to me, at least it's trying something different.

Far Cry is very formulaic these days and Crackdown looks terrible.

I made the jump to PC as primary last gen, it's more or less liberated me from feeling this worry.
But I felt the same way you do now prior to last gen

@cloudymusic: @sparky_buzzsaw: Nice! Sounds like my only fear with the game is not a big deal.

now to just actually find the time to play it....

I doubt PUBG or many multiplayer games I play(ed) this gen could run on PS3/Xbox 360 powered devices, so I'd say a lot for me.

I definitely play a good number of retro and indie games too. While the title count of those played might be higher there than singleplayer AAA stuff I touch , the sheer number of hours I spend on MP is probably greater. Even if the current hardware isn't maximized by indie games, the speed of the interface and QoL feature improvements the PS4 hardware have over Ps3 easily makes it worth it to play indie/retro games on a PS4 versus a PS3.

So I figure about 75% for me.

I more or less made a list of these for myself a few years back
https://www.giantbomb.com/profile/slag/lists/holes-in-the-gaming-resume/359931/

Since then, I've beaten Super Metroid So I'd say Valkyrie Profile is my biggest blind spot atm

Also played meaningful amounts of Earthbound and Burnout: Paradise to where I don't think either are total unknowns to me now either